Evidence of meeting #5 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was digital.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Yes, Mr. Chair, we do, and we have done evaluation twice now in response to CITT findings. We struck a second evaluation team with brand new people, did it a second time, and it has come out the same.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
How much are we spending in legal costs on the challenge at CITT?
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I can't say what the cost for the legal fees of the challenge will be, but we're—
Conservative
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I can when it's all wrapped up, but this is a long file.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Can I ask right now to get back to us on what the costs to date are, because I realize this will be going for a while.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Absolutely.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
All right.
Concerning the delayed AOPS, we heard a story just the other week that they're delayed once again. How much is the delay costing taxpayers?
Liberal
Anita Anand Liberal Oakville, ON
The AOPS, to be clear, is a “first in class” vessel. We're expecting—
Conservative
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Please, what is the added cost to taxpayers for the delays?
Liberal
Anita Anand Liberal Oakville, ON
The delays are actually not overly impacting our costs, because we have fully costed this out.
Bill, did you want to step on?
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Let me just put it in context. The PBO has stated that for every single month of delays for the CSC, for example, there is going to be a quarter of a billion dollars of added cost to taxpayers.
Would there be an added cost to the taxpayers for the continual delays for the AOPS?
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Mr. Chair, I'll start, but I may turn to Mr. Fillion for some additional detail.
The AOPS contract for ship number one is very close to being delivered, this spring. We're not anticipating extra costs because of that delay. These are just delays—
Conservative
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
The surface combatant reference you made—
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
No, I'm not talking about the CSCs. It's regarding the AOPS, please. We're short on time. We just want to stick to the question.
You're saying, then, there is no added cost to the taxpayers.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
My understanding is that there are no added costs, but I want to turn to Mr. Fillion to confirm.
André Fillion Assistant Deputy Minister, Defence and Marine Procurement, Acquisitions Program, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I think it's hard to answer this question without going back to basics about this contract. It's a cost-reimbursable incentive fee contract with a ceiling. There's a ceiling established for the delivery of the six ships. We are still working within the ceiling that has been established for the six ships, despite some of the challenges that have been encountered in the delivery of AOPS number one.
This is the first ship of a class. It's also the first ship of a yard—a brand new yard that had to make some reinvestments. We're very close to delivery, but again, I think we're tracking in terms of the overall budget ceiling that has been established.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
I'm going to move on.
In the supplementary estimates, we have $444,000 in transfers to various organizations for innovative approaches to reduce greenhouse gas emissions in government operations. Fine, we studied that in committee.
I'm looking at your DRR, though, and it states on page 36 that the targets are actually getting worse. We've gone from wanting to achieve a target of 40% reduction, I think it was, by 2030, to now having it changed to 2021, but there's no actual target set.
You're asking for money—$444,000 for something—but your target is not applicable.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
How can we be asking for money when we're not actually showing results?
Liberal
Anita Anand Liberal Oakville, ON
I'd like to respond to your question by talking first about the environmental considerations that we are introducing.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Minister, please, the question is specifically on the supplementary estimate of $444,000 requested, which is fine; we've done a study on this. PSPC is the only department that, in the past, has actually set tangible goals for the reduction—we're actually the best—but your DRR shows no target.
How can you expect to be asking for money when the government is not fulfilling its roles under the Treasury Board framework for results and is not putting in a targeted result?