Evidence of meeting #7 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was companies.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:45 p.m.
Director General, Office of Small and Medium Enterprises, Public Services and Procurement Canada
Specifically with regard to COVID-related procurement?
3:50 p.m.
Director General, Office of Small and Medium Enterprises, Public Services and Procurement Canada
It's difficult for me to answer. As I mentioned, my team doesn't actually do procurement, so I need to be cautious on this.
What I would say is that I think what we've observed is the fact that there has been a movement to be able to do things as quickly as possible while, as you know, ensuring that due diligence is undertaken, but—
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
I'm going to switch over now. I'm running out of time. Thanks very much. I appreciate it.
Mr. Jeglic, welcome back, and hello to Mr. Rabinovitch on the phone.
Are we seeing a spike in sole-source contracts being granted in dealing with this issue?
3:50 p.m.
Procurement Ombudsman, Office of the Procurement Ombudsman
I wouldn't be able to speak to the numerical data now, but I would imagine that section 6 of the government contracting regulations is being invoked due to the emergency situation. What that exception does is allow for sole-sourcing in these unique circumstances.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Yes, I suspect that, and I understand it in some ways. I also imagine that we're going to see a huge spike in the government's invoking of the national security exemption in order to sole-source as well. What remedy do some of our SMEs or other companies have in dealing with this after the fact?
The reason I ask is that we heard someone else from PSPC justify the buying of substandard masks from China because, quote, we have a past “relationship” with this company. I'm wondering if the government is using this crisis to skip over legitimate competitive bidding. What's going to be our recourse for our companies that are dealing with this?
3:50 p.m.
Procurement Ombudsman, Office of the Procurement Ombudsman
Again, thank you for the question.
As I mentioned in the speaking notes, we are in fact the recourse mechanism for those companies so long as that meets the threshold of our jurisdiction, which is $26,400 for goods and $105,700 for services. As I mentioned, the Canadian—
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
I suspect the CITT is going to have to deal with that.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Okay. Is there any recourse mechanism if the government does say, hey, it's for $100,000 and below? That would deal with your area. Is there recourse if they just say that it's a national security exemption or invoke this other thing?
3:50 p.m.
Procurement Ombudsman, Office of the Procurement Ombudsman
What we would look for is if there has been a breach of the rules, if the complainant can demonstrate that there is a breach. Just the mere invocation, if some of the criteria are met, itself wouldn't be a breach of the rules because it's specifically contemplated. But if you were able to see that it's a breach, then absolutely they would have a right of recourse with my office.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
That's great. Thanks very much.
I think my time is up.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Thank you very much.
We'll now go to our final intervention for five minutes with Mr. Drouin.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I will share my speaking time with my esteemed colleague from Hull—Aylmer, Mr. Fergus.
My first question is for Mr. Ieraci, and Mr. Jeglic can add a few comments.
Mr. McCauley talked a little bit about the complexity of contracts offered to SMEs. We did a study in the past on the general terms and conditions of these contracts. Have you seen any improvement as a result of the modernization of procurement? Were those terms and conditions taken into account when dealing with SMEs? How does this relate to SME access to procurement in the context of the COVID-19 pandemic?
3:50 p.m.
Director General, Office of Small and Medium Enterprises, Public Services and Procurement Canada
Thank you very much for your question.
As I mentioned earlier, there are many activities underway related to the modernization of federal procurement that we are sharing with small and medium-sized enterprises when we have an opportunity to discuss them. Of course, not all of these activities are completed yet, but our department has taken some fairly significant steps. I'll give you two examples.
First of all, over the past year, we undertook a major effort to simplify contracts to make their wording and structure easier for companies to understand. In the past, companies have told us that they received documents where information pertinent to them only started on page 75, so the structure may not have been the right one. We already have drafts, and our department was in a position before the current crisis to start using these new approaches to procurement. I hope we'll be able to continue to do that.
My second example is the work the department continues to do to develop a digital platform related to procurement. We want to migrate from our current system to a digital and automated system, and this project is also continuing to move forward.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
Thank you very much.
Mr. Jeglic, do you have any comments to add?
3:55 p.m.
Procurement Ombudsman, Office of the Procurement Ombudsman
Yes, I would like to make a comment, if you don't mind.
One of the positive things we've seen is more standardized documentation. It frustrates small and medium-sized businesses to no end that every process looks and feels different. That applies across the federal government, but now, one of the unique opportunities that the COVID-19 crisis has created is this enhanced collaboration between the federal government, provincial governments and municipalities.
That has also been a point of frustration. Oftentimes, suppliers to the federal government are also dealing with their provincial government and municipal government. If there could be increased standardization, that again helps those small and medium-sized businesses that don't have the money to hire a proposal writer to help them respond to these complex RFP demands. I believe Mr. Ieraci pointed to one of the collaboration initiatives that will enhance that standardization.
That's absolutely something positive that we're seeing, but there is no end to simplification. I attest to the fact that every time you go over one of these documents, it is still a difficult read, so it needs to be a continued point of emphasis for this committee as well.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Mr. Fergus, your colleague Mr. Drouin has left you with approximately 60 seconds.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Greg Fergus Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to thank my colleague for allowing me to ask the following question.
My question is for you, Mr. Ieraci. First, I would like to commend the work your department is doing to ensure greater diversity among the companies that will supply the federal government.
In the context of the current International Decade for People of African Descent, what is your office doing, particularly in light of the current crisis, to ensure that visible minority entrepreneurs, or those of African descent who can provide essential services and products to the federal government, have an equal opportunity to obtain procurement contracts?
3:55 p.m.
Director General, Office of Small and Medium Enterprises, Public Services and Procurement Canada
Thank you very much for your question.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Colleagues, as I am fond of saying on many occasions, when I give an intervention opportunity for a committee member, it's for both the question and the answer.
Unfortunately, Mr. Fergus, we have absolutely no time left for an answer to your question. However, I suggest to both of our presenters today that if there are any unanswered questions, or if you have responses that you did not have an opportunity to answer at this committee level, please provide written responses to our clerk, who will distribute them to our committee members.
Colleagues, that concludes our testimony for this afternoon because we have a very tight timeline and our technicians must be able to get over to set up for the next Zoom video conference starting in approximately one hour.
I will excuse both of our witnesses. Thank you very much for your presentations. Your information was greatly appreciated and extremely useful.
Colleagues, we will now adjourn and will reconvene and see each other tomorrow at 11 a.m.
We are adjourned.