Government Operations Committee on May 4th, 2020

[Leah Anderson]

That's for three months.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Three months, $2 billion should be enough to be able to serve this program. Is that correct?

[Leah Anderson]

That's our estimate, that it would be approximately that amount.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Okay. With commercial landlords, the tenant applies. Do they apply to CMHC? Where do they apply? Whom do they need to convince in this fashion to be able to qualify?

[Leah Anderson]

CMHC will be leading the delivery of the program, and they'll release details about the interface to apply once this becomes operational in the next couple of weeks. They've set up a website where businesses can now get further information on how they would apply.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

At this point, we don't know what the deal is between CMHC and the landlords, do we?

[Leah Anderson]

The landlords would be in contact with CMHC to avail themselves of this program.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

If the banks were called to deliver on that program, would that be a better option?

[Leah Anderson]

Our assessment is that CMHC is well prepared to deliver this.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

At this moment why is CMHC not getting involved to solve the refusal of the landlords to adapt or work with the program, and who's got the authority to ask CMHC to act accordingly?

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Unfortunately once again we're completely out of time. Ms. Anderson, or whoever has a response to Mr. Aboultaif, please provide it in writing to our clerk, and then we can distribute it to the committee.

Colleagues, we've got just over 10 minutes left.

As I mentioned, at 3:45 p.m. I'd like to excuse our witnesses so we can then talk about the witnesses and the work plan and study for the week of May 11. Therefore, we will have two more five-minute interventions, starting with Mr. Kusmierczyk, followed by Mrs. Block, and unfortunately, Mr. Jowhari, it looks like you've drawn the short straw.

We have to adjourn our meeting at 4 p.m. sharp to allow the technicians to prepare for the next meeting.

We'll go now to Mr. Kusmierczyk. You have five minutes, please, sir.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Under normal times, thousands of Canadians who are on employment insurance can also benefit from the supplemental unemployment benefit, SUB. That's basically a top-up provided by the employer. It's a formal agreement between the employers, the unions and the government as well. Currently, under the CERB the SUBs are not permitted.

What is Finance's position on the issue of the supplemental unemployment benefits, and what are some of the key considerations?

[Suzy McDonald]

As you noted, the SUB plans are not being used at the moment. Part of the reason for this is that we are not using the EI system in the way it's traditionally been used. We have moved people to applying for the CERB through the Canada Revenue Agency or through Service Canada, and moved into that CERB usage instead of the EI system. As such, the idea here really is to make sure that we are meeting the needs of Canadians in an urgent time, suspending some of the ways in which EI has traditionally worked.

I know that ESDC has had a number of conversations around the SUB plan. They are the policy lead for this.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you. I just wanted to know whether Finance had any position or any considerations on this particular issue. I'll move on to the next questions.

In terms of the CEWS, the wage subsidy program, can you tell me how many employees are actually utilizing this program? As well, what impact will this have on our ability to recover once the economy is opened up?

[Andrew Marsland]

I would prefer to consult with my colleagues at the CRA, as these numbers change all the time in terms of how many employees. I believe the last number I saw was 1.7 million, but I will get back to you. The program just opened for applications last Monday. It changes all the time. Perhaps I can commit to getting back to the committee with an update. It will be out of date, unfortunately, as soon as I give it to you, but I can give you the newest information.

The second part of your question is an important one. It goes to the heart and the purpose of the program, which is to encourage employers to retain, to rehire and to avoid layoffs in order to be positioned to restart things as quickly as possible and preserve that productive capacity in the economy. That's really the objective of the measure. We think it will be an important contributor toward recovery.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Great. Thank you.

The Canadian Federation of Independent Business did a survey of about 8,000 of its members. It found that about a third of its membership will have a shortfall of about $10,000 in the next 30 days. That's when they take into consideration all the government benefits and all the revenue they're bringing in, obviously minus all the costs they're facing.

What indicators are we looking at to see whether the programs as designed are actually working, and specifically in the case of some of the programs directed at businesses?

[Andrew Marsland]

That's an excellent question. I think we have been operating very much in real time in terms of developing these programs as the situation has developed. We are looking at take-up, obviously. We're looking at the feedback we get. We speak to a lot of associations and companies to understand exactly how these programs are working for them. There have been adjustments. While I can't speculate on the future, I think we'll continue to consider whether adjustments are required.

Clearly, we're tracking very closely the take-up of these programs. We are engaging with the finance committee on almost a weekly basis, if not every two weeks. I think we'll continue to track and look at the data and, importantly, seek input from Canadians across the country.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

Mrs. Block, you have five minutes.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I have one really quick question in follow-up to the previous questions I was asking. I think it was Ms. McDermott who was answering my question.

I want a really short answer about the generous package you've referenced, which was announced to address what we are experiencing with COVID-19. Was that meant to be a medium-term solution, a long-term solution or a short-term solution?

[Alison McDermott]

I think it's short- to medium-term in the sense that some of those measures will have a duration of a few months. Do you want me to talk—

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thank you. That answers my question.

I want to turn the rest of my time over to my colleague Mr. McCauley. I echo his concerns around some of the industries he was asking about, in terms of some sort of package for them. Could I do that, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Certainly.

Mr. McCauley, you have the remaining time, approximately four minutes.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Great. Thank you, Mrs. Block.

With respect to Finance, 40 days ago now, of course, Finance Minister Morneau announced that support for the energy industry was “hours, possibly days away”. Now, we saw a small bit for the cleanup of wells, which is not going to help the overall industry. When are we actually going to see a support package for the vital oil and gas industry?

Governor Poloz from the Bank of Canada noted it's going to be one of the main driving factors leading us into recovery, but it has to exist if it's actually going to help Canada recover.

When are we going to see the support package promised by Mr. Morneau? If you don't have an answer precisely, please just state that and we'll move on to other questions.

[Evelyn Dancey]

On energy support, the announcement of April 17, in addition to the wells and the emissions fund, there was also a reference to new financing products to be offered by Export Development Canada and the Business Development Bank of Canada. They are a specific response to the particular financing challenges in the energy sector—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Is that the extent of it, then, or will there be more coming?