Government Operations Committee on Feb. 22nd, 2021

[David McHattie]

Definitely, and without a doubt in those first months manufacturers moved as rapidly as they could to serve the communities where they operated, where their people were employed and where their customers were.

From coast to coast, across the country, there were manufacturers stepping in to do that. They often did so at their costs, because they were in an environment where you had to operate with different production regimes, often starting a product from scratch, or adapting an existing product, often at a higher cost.

It was very valuable to share with the government in many forums, including this forum, that Canada could help and connect, using government procurement where possible, with suppliers and buyers. It was a great opportunity, and would have an important benefit in communities across the country.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Great. Thank you.

Mr. McHattie, I just want to say thank you to all your members who stepped up big time and produced for Canadians so we could have that PPE. It could have been a very different story had they not done that a few months ago.

I'll say the same thing to you, Ms. Bull. I know a lot of aboriginal businesses stepped up to the plate when Canada called.

I'd just love to hear what sort of problematic issues you have encountered. I know there were 28 contracts issued to aboriginal-owned businesses, but I am hearing from you that we need to find a way to measure that better. You said you'd love to see a way to provide the number of contracts that were provided to aboriginal-owned businesses through the supply bills. Is that what you said at the beginning?

[Tabatha Bull]

I'm sorry. No. That first press release came out. We've looked into those businesses and, as we've looked into the publicly available data on PPE, we have seen that there have been more outside of that RFP, but the significant number of businesses that were able to answer that specific call from indigenous businesses for non-surgical masks was well in excess of what was awarded.

We'd like to be able to see publicly available data on how many indigenous businesses were able to supply PPE to the Government of Canada in order for us to continue to move towards the minimum 5% procurement target that's been set.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Mr. Drouin, you have 25 seconds still.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I'll just take the opportunity to say thank you to Ms. Bull for stepping up to the plate as well. I certainly appreciate it, and we've seen some businesses pivot really quickly. I know the aboriginal community and first nations communities across Canada have stepped up big time, so thank you. That was 25 seconds.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you.

We'll now go to Ms. Vignola, for six minutes.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'll begin with Mr. McHattie. Then I'll have some questions for Ms. Bull.

Mr. McHattie, has the COVID-19 Supply Council been meeting since June 2020?

[David McHattie]

Yes, it has.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

How many times has it met since June 2020?

[David McHattie]

I believe we met once, in December.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

As I understand it, the council's role is to advise the government and suggest possible solutions.

What recommendations have been made to government to date? Is there an official list of the council's recommendations?

[David McHattie]

Generally speaking, for the interventions from council members and industry, we were given the opportunity to share our insights verbally. We often went around the room, each providing ideas and feedback. We didn't submit specific lists, although that didn't prevent any one of us individually, through email or otherwise, from sharing further information between meetings.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Instead, they were informal meetings to brainstorm ideas for improvements to Canada's procurement.

[David McHattie]

I wouldn't necessarily classify it as informal, because there was a structure and an agenda, but the aspect you might term informal was that we each got the chance to speak and to share our insights verbally with Minister Anand and her team.

We weren't generating formal reports, which I guess is more the point.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Yes, that's what I meant by informal meetings. Even in a formal meeting, everyone can talk. At least, I hope that's the case and that we're not in a dictatorship in Canada.

Were vaccines among the topics you discussed?

[David McHattie]

Yes, they were included on the topic levels. The idea of doing as much as we could in Canada and finding a way was something that many members, including me, expressed an interest in.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

What strengths and weaknesses emerged from your discussions about vaccines? In other words, what is already working well and what needs to be improved?

[David McHattie]

From my perspective, Canada has strong universities, a strong infrastructure of people and ideas. What we lack sometimes in some areas is specific manufacturing capabilities, so we discussed the interest in building on where we do have strengths and expanding them to eventually be able to produce strategic products like vaccines where we can in Canada. In this, we were speaking in an aspirational and collegial tone, not assigning why we could not or why we did not, but more that this was our aspiration, that we felt it was important for Canada to do so.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Bull, in your opening remarks, you said that the pandemic has had a significant impact on indigenous businesses. You indicated the extent to which they had had to close their doors or reduce their business hours.

Do you think this impact is comparable to that experienced by visible minority and white-owned businesses? Are the effects of the pandemic following a more positive or negative trend among indigenous businesses?

[Tabatha Bull]

We do definitely see, when we compare the results of our first survey to the Stats Canada and the CFIB surveys, that there has been more impact on indigenous business. Part of that is because there's a larger portion of indigenous businesses that are small and medium entrepreneurs, but additionally, access to financing and access to being able to participate in the programs that were available are also not equitable, so we have seen more of an impact on indigenous, and particularly more on women-owned businesses as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you.

We'll now go to Mr. Green for six minutes.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you very much.

I'm hoping to carry on on some of the questions related to procurement strategies for aboriginal businesses. I know there are both mandatory and voluntary set-aside programs, and I'm just wondering, Ms. Bull, if you'd care to comment on whether or not, in your opinion, those set-asides were adequately considered with the size and scope of the procurement that happened over the duration of COVID.

[Tabatha Bull]

To my knowledge, under PPE and procurement under COVID, there were not set-asides specifically for indigenous businesses. There was one RFP specific to indigenous business for the non-surgical masks, as I spoke about before, but there weren't set targets specifically in response to COVID.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Are you aware currently of our federal contractors program that has within it employment equity standards?

[Tabatha Bull]

I don't believe I am. I'm aware of the PSAB program, which has employment requirements to be determined as an indigenous business.