Government Operations Committee on March 10th, 2021

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I will save that question, then, for a future date.

I will bring you back to this one to get clarity. When we talk about the difference between a grant and a contribution, do the contributions have with them some kind of equity or some kind of IP share? Do we get anything when we do a contribution that is separate and different from the parameters around a grant?

When I hear “grant”, what I hear is money that we just give away with no strings attached. When I hear “contribution”, I hear that there's a relationship or a partnership. Is a contribution a partnership or is it just another word for grant?

[Roger Ermuth]

Under the policy of transfer payments, there are two main mechanisms for grants and contributions. The main difference is that with a grant, most of the work goes into eligibility up front, in terms of a recipient receiving funds. Thereafter, there is minimal to no reporting. Basically, if you meet the criteria, the money goes.

On a contribution, there is more reporting. There may be some check-ins for release of expenditures over time.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

As a supplementary to that—I apologize, as I'm dwindling down here—I recall the words “contribution agreements” being used with the WE scenario. Are contribution agreements used for sole source?

Are they a separate type of procurement that allows for the government to distribute money in a different way than it would under procurement strategies and typical policies?

[Roger Ermuth]

It is different from a procurement process covered by a different set of policies. In terms of sole source, that's really more of a contracting term. You have to look at the program, the requirements for the program, what it is that the department says they're going to do in terms of the assessment of proposals they receive, etc.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

This has been very helpful. Thanks to both of you. I appreciate it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Mr. Green.

We will now go into our second round

We will start with Ms. Harder for five minutes.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I guess the minister isn't here. I would love to address this to him. I will let you decide who's the best to answer it.

The federal government in recent years has awarded internal contracts to Cisco Systems. There have been a number of articles written about that and, of course, those contracts have been to the tune of about $260 million. It was stated that there's “a pattern of dependency by Ottawa on a single network provider that has all but shut out competing bids.”

Are you worried at all that there is a lack of diversity in the offer of networking, given the cost of these systems?

[Glenn Purves]

Thank you, Ms. Harder.

I think Ms. Read or Ms. Cahill are better placed to answer this question.

[Karen Cahill]

I believe it would be Ms. Read, Glenn.

[Sonya Read, Acting Assistant Secretary, Digital and Services Policy, Treasury Board Secretariat]

Thank you very much for the question.

To be honest, I think Shared Services Canada would probably be best placed in terms of the distribution of contracts and respective networking capacity within the Government of Canada, but certainly that is a consideration in terms of ensuring the ability of the networks to be robust and to have backup capacity.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Ms. Read, I'm sorry, but in Minister Duclos' department, is he not ultimately responsible for this file?

[Sonya Read]

For Shared Services Canada...?

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Yes.

[Sonya Read]

No. That would be under the Minister of Digital Government.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Yes, and the Minister of Digital Government is Minister Murray, and she falls under Minister Duclos.

[Sonya Read]

Yes.

From a departmental perspective, Shared Services Canada would have that information, but we would be happy to follow up and provide that information back to the committee.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Are you not able to answer any questions with regard to Cisco?

[Sonya Read]

I'm not able to answer any questions with regard to Cisco at this time, no.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

That's convenient.

Within the supplementary estimates, it is stated that $3.8 million under vote 1c is being put aside “for the Canadian Digital Service to provide critical digital products and services” related to COVID-19. Which products and services will be provided through the Canadian Digital Service? What is that $3.8 million being used for?

[Karen Cahill]

I'll take this one. Thank you for the question.

Actually, most of the $3.8 million will be used to support and, as you know, in conjunction with Health Canada, develop the COVID alert application. Also, the money is being used to add new features to the application itself.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Within the supplementary (C)s, there is $395,221 that is being allocated for funding for the Black entrepreneurship program. Am I correct in stating this figure?

[Glenn Purves]

I believe so. Can you tell me exactly which department you're referring to on that front? I think it's for ACOA—correct me if I'm wrong—and for CEDQ as well. It's a horizontal item that's covered under two different portfolios. I could speak to the broader initiative if you'd like.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

No. I just find it interesting that it's a little more than $300,000, that $395,000 is being allocated to this program. The government has definitely used this program as a massive opportunity to virtue signal, but under $400,000 is actually what's being invested, so—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Virtue signal...? What does “virtue signal” mean?

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

—it just—