Government Operations Committee on April 14th, 2021

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

It was originally five, and then we went to six, though, right?

[Bill Matthews]

We effectively started counting differently when the regulatory change was made, in terms of their deliveries against the contract.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Okay, so for the first x amount, we only paid for five per vial. Is that correct? We didn't retroactively change it, did we?

[Bill Matthews]

We were paying for the number of doses extracted, under the regulatory approval. In fact, early on, in many cases provinces were actually squeezing extra doses out of the vial.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

You didn't answer my question.

We were doing five per vial. Is that what we were paying for? We're now paying for six per vial. Did we retroactively pay, or only what—

[Bill Matthews]

There's no retroactive piece here, Mr. Chair. It is number of doses delivered. The second the regulatory change was made, we started counting doses differently going forward.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Thanks.

It's a bit hypothetical, but regarding Johnson & Johnson, I know we've approved it here. However, as the Prime Minister says, science is evolving. If it turns out that we copy the States and do not approve Johnson & Johnson, or perhaps do what some European countries and New Zealand are doing, which is no longer accepting AstraZeneca, are we still on the hook for all of those doses we've committed to?

[Bill Matthews]

It's a hypothetical on all of that, and I can't speak, given the sensitivity of the contracts, Mr. Chair, at this time.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

If Johnson & Johnson.... Can you confirm we'll pay for them regardless?

[Bill Matthews]

Normally speaking, when you're dealing with vaccines or therapeutics, the hooks in the contract relate to regulatory approval. That's a key hurdle, from a contractual perspective.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Let's say the regulatory approval is taken away, as has happened with AstraZeneca in some countries, or with Johnson & Johnson. Are we still paying for them?

[Bill Matthews]

I can't get into the specifics of the contracts, but I have shared that the regulatory approval is, obviously, a key hurdle in terms of respecting the contract. There's not much more I can offer at this stage.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Whose decision was it to advertise COVID awareness on the Super Bowl at a cost of $182,000?

[Bill Matthews]

Typically, Mr. Chair—and I can't speak specifically to this one—the actual content or the advertising choices are the responsibility of the department—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

That was PSPC.

[Bill Matthews]

In terms of the sponsoring department, if I recall correctly, it would have been Health on this one, because the actual content is COVID awareness, but we can check back on that, Mr. Chair.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Yes, could you? I'm pretty sure it was PSPC, or it was billed to PSPC.

[Bill Matthews]

PSPC may have been involved in the contract itself, as the executing agency working with our agency of record, but the actual content of advertising material would land with the program holder.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

On the issue with the Spartan Cube and the $150 million, are taxpayers on the hook for that? Are we able to get our money back, considering the item doesn't work?

[Bill Matthews]

On the Spartan Cube, it's still evolving there. I think, as the member has highlighted, the company is going through some challenges with their testing. There was an advance payment made related to Spartan to get them going. We'll see where this goes.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Let me ask you this. I've been in the business world before. I've never signed a contract that's been evolving. A contract is for a good received. How is it that the contract in this situation is evolving?

[Bill Matthews]

I think, Mr. Chair, we—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

If it's a new technology, that's fair, if you just tell us. Is a new technology fronted as a grant, or...? Did we buy it based on the belief that it was going to work and we got sold snake oil, or...?

[Bill Matthews]

There are a couple points, and I think the member touched on this in his question. There was some risk-taking being done in terms of new products—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

That's fair.