Government Operations Committee on April 14th, 2021

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Great. Thank you.

One of the accusations we often hear is that Canada was dead last in negotiating contracts. If my memory serves me correctly, when Canada signed contracts, whether it was with Moderna or Pfizer, none of the clinical trials were completed. Is that correct?

[Bill Matthews]

That's correct. They were all signed before clinical trials had wrapped up. The contract is a product of months of discussion in some cases, and there are many steps along the way. The process was different for each supplier, but they were indeed concluded before clinical trials had finished.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Great. Yes, I could understand that buying forks and knives is probably easier than buying vaccines, especially not knowing whether or not those vaccines would be successful in helping Canadians fight COVID-19.

I want to touch base in terms of contract transparency. The question of when we are going to publish contracts comes up at every committee. I'd like to know what PSPC has done to date to provide information about contract transparency.

[Bill Matthews]

There are a number of things, but first and foremost it's an ongoing dialogue with the vaccine providers, because it's a discussion in terms of what each party is comfortable in making public. I include the government in that. As I mentioned earlier, we don't want anything made public that would compromise ongoing negotiations with these suppliers. We reached out to all the companies. We've written to them, and we are now working through with them what might be appropriate to disclose. That process is ongoing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Mr. Drouin, you have five seconds.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you so much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

There's the bell there.

We'll go to Ms. Vignola for two and a half minutes.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

My questions are about tracking systems.

In January, Deloitte was awarded a $16.1 million contract to develop an enhanced national vaccine management IT platform. This platform will be in addition to the current IT systems.

It has been said ad nauseam that the government's IT systems are outdated and heavily used. Do the current networks have the capacity to support a new platform and ensure that the data is secure?

[Bill Matthews]

Thank you for the question.

I could give you a more detailed answer in writing.

However, I can tell you that we have awarded a contract to Deloitte for systems enhancements as a result of a competitive process, as the member has indicated.

I'm not sure it's possible. My colleagues, Michael and Arianne, have an update on how that project is going, but I don't have one. Certainly, if my colleagues do not have one, we can get back to you with a written update.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I would like to receive the update.

[Arianne Reza]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Chair.

I'll note that the milestones of linking to the provincial databases and systems have been met, and progress continues. We can work with PHAC to get you an update.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much.

Does this inventory and tracking system also allow, or will it allow, for real time tracking of PPE, depending on the status of the project?

[Bill Matthews]

Once again, I can't answer that question. The Public Health Agency of Canada officials would be better able to answer that.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Okay.

At this point, how many countries have supplied the equipment in the national stockpile?

[Bill Matthews]

I don't know. I can provide an answer after the meeting.

To get back to the member's earlier question around the useful life of syringes and how many we have, they have a long, useful life. It's up to five years. The inventory we're buying is indeed good for an extended period of time, so there's not a fear of stockpiling on that front.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you.

We'll now go to Mr. Green for two and a half minutes.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I'm happy to pick up on the Deloitte contract. I'm always amazed to hear how many times Deloitte's name pops up in procurement, in this case for $16.1 million.

At what point in the procurement process does PSPC hand over the carriage of the project to another department? Is it as soon as the contract is signed, or does the department still retain some responsibility to see that it's up and running?

[Bill Matthews]

I guess there are two points here, Mr. Chair.

Number one, when the contract is signed, the primary relationship becomes between the successful bidder and the client department, so in this case, Deloitte would be working with the Public Health Agency and Health Canada on that assignment.

PSPC retains a role if there are issues with performance, potential amendments, a change in scope or things like that. PSPC would have an ongoing role, so we do keep a fairly loose eye on these larger contracts just in case there are changes.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Given that loose eye, is the national vaccine management information technology platform up and running?

[Bill Matthews]

It's a milestone-based approach, Mr. Chair, in which there are a number of milestones and enhancements.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Is it on time and on budget, given the milestones?

[Bill Matthews]

I think largely on initial milestones—and it's early days here still—they are more or less on schedule. It's a performing contract. That's the way I would describe it at this stage.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I just know that in my time on the public accounts committee, the Auditor General brought forward a scathing report on PHAC in regard to systems failures on monitoring, tracking and surveillance of the COVID response. I'm wondering if that is what this is for. Is this to offset some of the failures in tracking? What exactly is the role of the management information technology platform?

[Bill Matthews]

The scope on this one—and my colleague Arianne can help me out a little bit as well—is around tracking information related largely to vaccine deployment and information gathering on safety and so on.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Would it be safe to say, then, that prior to this procurement the government didn't have a platform in place that was adequate?