Evidence of meeting #24 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was million.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
It was originally five, and then we went to six, though, right?
5:15 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
We effectively started counting differently when the regulatory change was made, in terms of their deliveries against the contract.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Okay, so for the first x amount, we only paid for five per vial. Is that correct? We didn't retroactively change it, did we?
5:15 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
We were paying for the number of doses extracted, under the regulatory approval. In fact, early on, in many cases provinces were actually squeezing extra doses out of the vial.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
You didn't answer my question.
We were doing five per vial. Is that what we were paying for? We're now paying for six per vial. Did we retroactively pay, or only what—
5:15 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
There's no retroactive piece here, Mr. Chair. It is number of doses delivered. The second the regulatory change was made, we started counting doses differently going forward.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Thanks.
It's a bit hypothetical, but regarding Johnson & Johnson, I know we've approved it here. However, as the Prime Minister says, science is evolving. If it turns out that we copy the States and do not approve Johnson & Johnson, or perhaps do what some European countries and New Zealand are doing, which is no longer accepting AstraZeneca, are we still on the hook for all of those doses we've committed to?
5:15 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
It's a hypothetical on all of that, and I can't speak, given the sensitivity of the contracts, Mr. Chair, at this time.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
If Johnson & Johnson.... Can you confirm we'll pay for them regardless?
5:15 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Normally speaking, when you're dealing with vaccines or therapeutics, the hooks in the contract relate to regulatory approval. That's a key hurdle, from a contractual perspective.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Let's say the regulatory approval is taken away, as has happened with AstraZeneca in some countries, or with Johnson & Johnson. Are we still paying for them?
5:15 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I can't get into the specifics of the contracts, but I have shared that the regulatory approval is, obviously, a key hurdle in terms of respecting the contract. There's not much more I can offer at this stage.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Whose decision was it to advertise COVID awareness on the Super Bowl at a cost of $182,000?
5:15 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Typically, Mr. Chair—and I can't speak specifically to this one—the actual content or the advertising choices are the responsibility of the department—
5:15 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
In terms of the sponsoring department, if I recall correctly, it would have been Health on this one, because the actual content is COVID awareness, but we can check back on that, Mr. Chair.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Yes, could you? I'm pretty sure it was PSPC, or it was billed to PSPC.
5:15 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
PSPC may have been involved in the contract itself, as the executing agency working with our agency of record, but the actual content of advertising material would land with the program holder.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
On the issue with the Spartan Cube and the $150 million, are taxpayers on the hook for that? Are we able to get our money back, considering the item doesn't work?
5:15 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
On the Spartan Cube, it's still evolving there. I think, as the member has highlighted, the company is going through some challenges with their testing. There was an advance payment made related to Spartan to get them going. We'll see where this goes.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Let me ask you this. I've been in the business world before. I've never signed a contract that's been evolving. A contract is for a good received. How is it that the contract in this situation is evolving?
5:15 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I think, Mr. Chair, we—
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
If it's a new technology, that's fair, if you just tell us. Is a new technology fronted as a grant, or...? Did we buy it based on the belief that it was going to work and we got sold snake oil, or...?
5:15 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
There are a couple points, and I think the member touched on this in his question. There was some risk-taking being done in terms of new products—