Government Operations Committee on May 10th, 2021

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Yes, Mr. Chair, I want to thank Mr. Green for the motion. I know he discussed this previously. I'm just questioning where he wants to go. We'll support this, but I'm hoping he's not requesting that politicians intervene in the day-to-day activities of an arm's-length Crown corporation that is there to make investments on behalf of members.

I'm not sure, but the one question I would ask is this. Has he heard from members whether or not they've expressed their dissatisfaction, and whether or not they have communicated that directly to the CEO and the board, who are responsible for those investments?

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Mr. Drouin. I'm looking to see if there are any other hands for debate. I'm not seeing any.

Mr. Green.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I don't want to presuppose any of the outcomes. I just know that reports have been that dozens of people have died through neglect and dehydration. I follow Nora Loreto, who has been working on this quite closely. I know she has reported upwards of 300 deaths coming out of Revera. I know there is a connection between Revera, as a Crown corp, and our government. I think our government is guided by basic ethical standards in investment that are clearly worthy of consideration within this committee. I'm not going to presuppose any of the outcomes. I just think it would be a good opportunity to ensure that, by bringing these folks forward, given this pandemic, we have some accountability through this committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Mr. Green.

I'm going to ask, in light of our doing this virtually, is there any disagreement to this motion?

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

I'm not seeing any around the room. We'll take that as carried. Thank you, Mr. Green.

(Motion agreed to)

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I will cede the rest of my time. I know you don't normally run time, but I'll defer it to the rest of the committee for further discussion on the matters at hand.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Mr. Green.

We will now go to Mr. McCauley for five minutes.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thanks, Mr. Green.

Ms. Vignola, I will use your one second as well. Thanks.

Ms. Vignola was talking about the effect, obviously, of the pandemic on women in the workforce. Have you broken down the 699 between men and women? I haven't seen it in the PBO's report, but does Treasury Board have that, and would you provide it to the committee, please?

[Marie-Chantal Girard]

I do not have the breakdown at this point.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Does TBS?

[Marie-Chantal Girard]

I will ask the question, look into that and get back to the committee.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Okay.

When we're talking about public servants' returning back to the offices, walk us through what's going to be required to have them return. I'm not talking about CBSA, who are at their usual spots, but just the general day-to-day, for lack of better words, public servants.

Who's going to make that decision? It sounded like, you said earlier, it will be on a department-by-department basis. I'm just curious, who's going to decide? It is Treasury Board's purview, I guess, but who will decide that, based on what metrics, and so on? Obviously, it's a very large undertaking. I would assume these discussions are taking place already. Can you update us, then, if that's the case?

[Tolga Yalkin]

Mr. Chair, what I can say at the outset is that obviously right now departments, and we at Treasury Board Secretariat as well, are very focused on ensuring that the proper measures are still in place to protect the health and safety of the public servants who are currently working in the context of the pandemic—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I'm not asking about their returning today. I'm asking, are we starting the planning? Who's going to be in charge of that? Who's going to be making the decisions? What are the metrics going to be based on? Again, I assume you've already started planning, because this is not something, even if everyone's vaccinated tomorrow, that's going to happen tomorrow. It's going to be a long process, so I have to assume that you've started some of the planning. If so, I'd like you to share it with us.

[Tolga Yalkin]

Mr. Chair, like many organizations—private sector, public sector and not-for-profit—we are watching the situation as it evolves, and we are considering how it may evolve going forward and what implications that may have for a return to work. What I can assure the members of the committee of, Mr. Chair, is that as those plans continue to develop and to crystallize, we'll be sure to make sure that the proper stakeholders—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

You've mentioned as these plans “crystallize”. How far along are you with these plans, then? I'm sorry, but maybe I'm misunderstanding. You seem incredibly evasive about what I think are rather straightforward questions.

[Tolga Yalkin]

Mr. Chair, the situation as it continues in the pandemic day to day, with the developments we see when it comes to new variants and changes, is obviously is something we're studying very carefully. We're taking into account all the different considerations that would need to inform the support we provide deputy heads in the administration of their organizations as one looks forward to what the future could look like for the public service.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Who will be making the decision going forward? Will it come from Treasury Board, or will it be up to individual departments?

[Tolga Yalkin]

Mr. Chair, the way we normally function when it comes to the work we do with deputy heads is that they have authorities and accountabilities for the administration of their organizations under the FAA and other legislation as well. For our part at the Treasury Board Secretariat, we provide guidance, support and direction in some cases, in the form of policies and instruments for the core public administration.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Okay. Thanks.

I want to just quickly pop over to the rapid testing. I'm glad it's getting rolled out. I have the women's institution in my riding, the women's prison, and the warden and unions there do a phenomenal job protecting both the inmates and the staff. I'm glad that's getting rolled out.

One of the criticisms of the rollout has been regulations that state that even very simple rapid testing has to be performed by a health care official, which really makes it difficult for a lot of offices, etc., to roll out. Have we moved past that to allow the CBSA or perhaps other institutions to have regular lay people, so to speak, administer the rapid testing—to properly put safety ahead of regulations or roadblocks?

[Marie-Chantal Girard]

The rapid testing is getting implemented in specific workplaces and is being increased for those workplaces as we move forward and it becomes more available—

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Okay. Thank you, Ms. Girard. If you could put that in writing, it would be greatly appreciated.

We'll now go to Mr. MacKinnon for five minutes.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

Good afternoon, Mr. Yalkin and Ms. Girard. Welcome to the committee.

My thanks to you and your colleagues for your ongoing work.

Ms. Girard, you answered Mrs. Vignola's question earlier about compensation for the damages from Phoenix, but I'd like you to elaborate.

You said that only the Canada Revenue Agency can make decisions on taxing those compensation payments, is that correct?

[Marie-Chantal Girard]

Thank you for the question.

Yes, since it is subject to the Income Tax Act, the issue of taxation is the direct responsibility of the Canada Revenue Agency, and the relationship is between the Agency and the taxpayer.