Government Operations Committee on June 9th, 2021

[Shannin Metatawabin]

I just selected it. How does it sound now?

[The Clerk]

I'm just waiting to see. If you could continue, I'll monitor it with the interpreters. I apologize for the interruption.

Thank you.

[Shannin Metatawabin]

There was a question about a task force. The task force was a temporary gathering. I was speaking today about a reference group, which is a procurement working group that's working with government. I don't think we were talking about the task force.

Ms. Vignola, did you ask about the task force?

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I think so.

I'm trying to find the exact name. It's a group that brings together the Canadian Council for Aboriginal Business, the National Aboriginal Capital Corporations Association, Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami and Pauktuutit Inuit Women of Canada.

To your knowledge, how many times did that group meet?

[Shannin Metatawabin]

That group was meeting from March until August of last year, at which point we met our mandate, which was to undertake a task force and set up a database and get some other information. We achieved that and we discontinued meeting. A portion of that group kept on meeting, but we started new initiatives, such as the reference group on procurement.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Ms. Vignola.

I did give you a little extra time there with the interruption. I appreciate that.

Mr. Green, you have two and a half minutes, and maybe a couple more seconds.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I always appreciate you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Vignola brings up a good point. PSPC had touted this task force that was supposed to be doing ongoing work with the indigenous business COVID-19 task force. I think the CCAB was involved in that. Can I get an expansion on the suggestion that the mandate was met? What were the outcomes of the mandate? Do you feel it was an effective and successful way of including indigenous businesses within the hundreds of billions of dollars of procurement over the course of COVID-19?

[Shannin Metatawabin]

I was part of that task force—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I think it goes through to the CCAB, because I think they were also involved. Maybe Mr. Ducharme could answer.

[Philip Ducharme]

Thank you, Mr. Green.

Yes, the CCAB was involved with the task force, and the task force mandate dealt with COVID procurement. We had the businesses that were registered within that directory, and they were identified to different ministries in the government. Once we started going past the current needs of PPE and COVID requirements, my understanding was that the task force sort of expanded past that. We all had our own groups, as well as this other collective that was going through it.

When we did the initial search on the seven businesses that were publicly identified, it was hard to get results with regard to who actually won these awards. We mentioned that earlier. You don't know who gets them within the government. However, out of those seven, I believe only four were within that task force, so the other ones were not part of the task force.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

You referenced one example, I think, of how there were about 32 RFPs that were unsuccessful. Were those from one company? Did one organization apply 32 times?

[Philip Ducharme]

Yes, but that was for all federal procurement. It had nothing to do with strictly the PPE, but that one was 32 within one year. Their business development person spent that time and was then told that it didn't make sense to apply to the federal government for opportunities when we're investing all this time and money and not getting any feedback.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

You heard me earlier reference the historic investments that are going to be made during the COVID recovery. What feedback would your task force, or you from your experience in the task force, provide to this committee to ensure that there is a greater uptake of that opportunity?

[Philip Ducharme]

I'll be honest with you, Mr. Green, that I was not part of that task force. Again, it was Ms. Bull who was part of that task force, and they did give the recommendations.

I think when we're looking at post-COVID opportunities, we need to find out what those opportunities are going to be so that we can ensure that our businesses are able to fully participate in them.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, I have one question. I don't know if it's a point of order, but it's a procedural question. When documents like that have been referenced, are we able, through our clerk, to request that those documents be tabled at this committee for the purpose of this study so that we can adequately reflect them in any of the outcomes or recommendations that might come from this study?

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Mr. Green, we will check with the clerk and find out if that's possible.

Mr. Clerk, do you have any comments?

[The Clerk]

The committee has in its power to send for documents, which the committee has done in the past. There's nothing that prohibits any member from putting a motion forward identifying the documents that the committee wishes to receive.

In recent times, that has mostly been done with government departments; however, it's not outside the realm of reason, and I've even seen examples of documents being sought from private individuals or private corporations. Therefore, the committee does have a fairly wide-ranging power within its mandate to send for documents from the government, private individuals, corporations, associations, and so on.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you for that answer.

Mr. Green, do you have anything further on that?

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Just so we're clear about what we're referencing and so that I can reflect back on this from the Hansard, this would these have been recommendations that came out of the COVID-19 task force? Is that correct, Mr. Ducharme? You mentioned that Ms. Bull had provided these recommendations in another capacity. Do you have the name of that committee?

[Philip Ducharme]

I believe the group that was actually collecting all the data was CANDO. They were the ones who were housing all the information. They were the ones who were creating the reports and they would come to the members, Shannon and Ms. Bull and other groups, with the recommendations. Again, I think there were discussions in there that I was not privy to, so it would have to go back to Ms. Bull, who was on the committee.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you very much for that.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Mr. Green.

We'll now go to Mr. McCauley for five minutes.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I'm just wondering how long this meeting is supposed to last. We're way over two hours.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Mr. Drouin.

We're finishing up now. We're at the last two questioners, so there will be Mr. McCauley and then Mr. Kusmierczyk.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I just want to make sure that our interpreters are okay.