Government Operations Committee on June 9th, 2021

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you for that.

I just wanted to clarify what the wording is. The wording, actually, as I've indicated, is that as we roll into second and subsequent rounds, we continue with that second round.

I'll get the clerk to comment on it for you, Mr. Green.

By the way, Ms. Vignola, I have stopped your time. You haven't started yet.

[The Clerk]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In the motion that identifies and sets the time for the questioning of witnesses, it talks about how in the first round there will be six minutes for each of the recognized parties. It says after that, “For the second and subsequent rounds, the order and time for questioning be as follows”, and it outlines that it would be five minutes for the Conservative Party, five minutes for the Liberal Party, two and a half minutes for the Bloc Québécois, two and a half minutes for the NDP, five minutes for the Conservative Party and five minutes for the Liberal Party.

Where this would change is if you change the panels. You would start new with round one, and each party would get six minutes in the first round.

That is my understanding of how we interpret the motion. It does rest at the discretion of the chair, but that is the way the motion was adopted by the committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Mr. Clerk.

With that, we will now go to Ms. Vignola for two and a half minutes.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I have listened closely to the witnesses.

I note that we have received 30,000 pages of data from the businesses that participate in the federal contractors program for employment equity. That data, which had to be provided by the businesses, concerned the number of women, members of First Nations and visible minorities, and persons with disabilities, among others. I thought that all these statistics must also have made the process more complicated for businesses.

I thought, as you said, that only the big businesses were able to get around like this on the websites, which are real labyrinths. In short, to encourage diversity, SMEs have to be supported as well.

The impression I get is that you believe the system is too complicated for small actors like the SMEs of the world. In concrete terms, what could truly facilitate the work that SMEs do to get contracts?

[Shannin Metatawabin]

I would like to start.

During my opening remarks, I said that we're working on a business plan for an indigenous-led institution. I think that would be more of a concierge sort of service in working with the departments, understanding what's coming down the pipeline, getting the businesses ready and also doing some educational programming and working with the partners. You need somebody who is sort of stickhandling everything in the middle.

I think the big part that I keep bringing up is that the government just does not want to change. There needs to be some really big-time awareness. I'll bring up Australia again. They have reconciliation action plans that the corporate world, government and everybody buys into. Also, they have to really outline exactly what they're going to do to make a difference in the indigenous lives. It's almost like an IBA, an impact benefit agreement. It's about looking at training, business support services, processes and awareness within their organizations. This needs to take place within other governments.

[Marnie Suitor]

I'd like to add a comment. I think it would be important to scale the requirements in that RFP to the nature of the opportunity. It would take some time to ensure that it's not a sort of blanket approach for large versus small. There are some nuances that could change within that RFP requirement.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Ms. Suitor, and thank you, Ms. Vignola.

Ms. Vignola, you are correct: Two and a half minutes goes by very quickly.

We'll go now to Mr. Green for two and a half minutes.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Both Ms. Suitor and Mr. Sinclair have been kind of cut off on some of what was remaining on their questions.

I'd like to turn it over to you, beginning with Ms. Suitor, to just add anything that has been front of mind but that time didn't permit you to fully answer in terms of points that you want this committee to take away.

[Marnie Suitor]

Thank you for that. I did want to share an example with you that I think will speak to capacity, programming and training, etc.

Several years ago, I was asked to write a business plan and a feasibility study and then eventually manage a small business incubator for a first nation in the heart of the oil sands. The funding had been secured. We moved forward with developing that small business incubator.

I was there on the ground every day, working with entrepreneurs on various stages of their business, be that marketing, responding to RFPs or creating partnerships—just providing that whole host of development services for them. We were making some significant traction. We had about 16 really healthy businesses that were up and running and making a difference, not just in the community but within the industry and its sector entirely.

Then, of course, the three-year funding agreement ran out. It was not renewed. Unfortunately, that business incubator went away and left not only the 16 businesses struggling, which were really just starting to get their feet under them, but so many others that were in the midst of start-up and weren't able to move forward.

That's a sad example of the funding and the nature of the funding cycles and how that affects progress.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Unfortunately, I'm going to run out of time, which is why I fought for my earlier time.

Ms. Suitor, was that private sector funding or was that federal funding for the incubator?

[Marnie Suitor]

It was federal funding.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Do you recall which program it was?

[Marnie Suitor]

I want to say rural development, but I would have to look back through my files and provide that information to you.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you for sharing that.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Mr. Green, you still have another minute.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Really?

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Yes.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I have a timer here, and...but I will take it, absolutely, or I could give it back to Ms. Vignola—

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

I must have hit the clock a little bit after. I was cutting you a little slack here.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

You were. I appreciate it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

You have a little bit more time. You have a minute left, please.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I'll just say that at a future committee meeting, I may be moving a motion, should we return in the next session, to ensure that we third and fourth parties get our five minutes in these two-hour marathons.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Don't waste your minute, Mr. Green.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

It's all good. You can have it back.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Okay. Well, thank you very much. I will stop my clock here.

We will now go to Mr. McCauley for five minutes.