Government Operations Committee on June 16th, 2021

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, Mr. President of the Treasury Board.

Your colleague, Minister Anand, told us that only one business had been sued for non-compliance with contracts regarding the provision of personal protection equipment, or PPE. Two weeks later, the Auditor General came and told us that at least one other company had been sued as well.

Can you tell us exactly how many businesses the government has sued for non-compliance with PPE contracts or other COVID-19-related contracts?

[Jean-Yves Duclos]

Good afternoon, Mr. Paul-Hus. I'm very pleased to see you and hear you.

That's an entirely legitimate question. If you want an exact answer—and I imagine that's what you do want—you'd have to put it to either the Department of Justice, if you're talking about legal proceedings, or to Ms. Anand, who's responsible for the procurement process.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

So you, as President of the Treasury Board, have no idea of the number of government claims currently before the courts. I'm thinking of one concerning Tango Communication, for example.

[Jean-Yves Duclos]

Procurement processes are managed by Public Services and Procurement Canada. If it relates to Health Canada, then Health Canada and the Public Health Agency of Canada are obviously involved in the exercise. If that results in lawsuits…

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

That's fine, Mr. Duclos. Thank you. I thought that, as President of the Treasury Board, you managed the money the government spent. So I thought you also knew when money was sent to people who hadn't complied with the contracts.

[Jean-Yves Duclos]

We don't manage legal proceedings. You mustn't confuse the Treasury Board Secretariat with the Department of Justice…

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you. I have to move on.

Here I have a memo dated April 2020 concerning the delegation of authorities. Greater spending powers were delegated to subordinates in various departments. We understand why quick action was required when the pandemic started. However, this delegation of authorities has just been renewed until December 31, 2021, whereas we're no longer managing a crisis but rather a process of bringing matters to an end.

Can you explain to me why we have to renew such significant delegations of authorities?

[Jean-Yves Duclos]

That's an excellent question.

Yes, renewals and adjustments have been made. As regards the renewal of initial delegations, significant standards and expectations were transmitted to the departments concerned.

I'm going to ask Roger Ermuth, who is an expert on this matter, to provide you with more details.

[Roger Ermuth]

Yes, some of the delegations have been continued on now until the end of December.

My clarifying question would be.... If it's in relation to some of the extra expenditures authorities, I might turn to Mr. Purves. I'm not sure how your question is being asked. If it's in relation to some of the procurement, I would be happy to give a little bit more detail.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

It's about the memo from last year on delegation of authorities and new emergency contracting limits to address the pandemic situation.

[Roger Ermuth]

Thank you very much. That's what I was looking for in terms of the clarification in relation to procurement.

Yes, there were some procurement flexibilities given in the early days of the pandemic—

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

I want to know why we extended it to December 21, because we don't need it anymore.

[Roger Ermuth]

With regard to why we extended it, it's more limited at this point in terms of the departments that have access to it. The rationale is that the pandemic is still evolving. In order to be flexible and available to meet whatever demands come out in the next little bit, it was extended. It will be reviewed again in the lead-up to December.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Ermuth.

The pandemic is receding now, and we can see that the pace of spending is accelerating and inflation is on the rise.

Mr. Duclos, how do you, an economist and professor of economics, perceive what's happening? Are you concerned about the situation in Canada?

[Jean-Yves Duclos]

We're actually monitoring the situation. Even though the pandemic is probably coming to an end, we must continue enforcing measures and making sound investments to protect people's health and safety.

However, our economy has been hit hard by this health crisis in recent months. If we want to emerge from this situation soon and in a strong and united manner, we'll have to continue making investments for a period of time. Those investments will help us leave the crisis behind and, as I said, stay economically and fiscally sound and strong over the longer term.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Minister.

We will now go to Mr. Drouin for five minutes.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I obviously want to thank the President of the Treasury Board for being with us today to defend these budgetary appropriations.

Mr. Duclos, you have been an ally on the francophonie file. I've seen you many times in our official languages caucus.

Yesterday, the Minister of Official Languages introduced her Bill C-32 on the modernization of official languages, which provides for a number of protective measures. First of all, it states that bilingual judges should be appointed to the Supreme Court of Canada. It is also designed to protect the French fact. It takes into account the fact that more measures must be taken to protect the French language and put it on an equal footing with the English language, since French is a minority language in North America.

The Treasury Board has a major role to play in providing that protection. Could you explain to me what the Treasury Board's new role will be with regard to the proposed measures under Bill C-32?

[Jean-Yves Duclos]

Thank you very much, Mr. Drouin. I want to thank you for being an extraordinarily strong and credible representative of the Franco-Ontarian community. We are very lucky to have you in the Canadian government and in Parliament. When you speak, we know it comes from your heart and experience. I would've preferred to tell you all that in a more private setting; it's somewhat odd to speak in this fashion. Whatever the case may be, we are very pleased to have you and very proud of your contribution.

The bill to modernize the Official Languages Act, which was introduced yesterday, is a major bill. In Quebec, we will protect the right to work and be served in French. We will do the same outside Quebec, in regions with significant francophone populations. We will invest in Radio-Canada, and in the CBC, of course, but definitely in Radio-Canada, to ensure it can cover all of French-speaking Canada. We will increase francophone immigration in all Canadian regions. We will appoint only bilingual judges to the Supreme Court. We will confer greater powers on the Commissioner of Official Languages, and we will permanently restore the court challenges program, which enables francophone minority communities, such as those in Ontario and the east, to defend their rights.

The Treasury Board will be granted new powers with which to perform its role. In particular, it will be required to monitor and verify federal institutions' compliance with parts IV, V, VI and VII of the Official Languages Act. It will also evaluate to a greater degree the effectiveness of federal institutions' policies and programs designed to support the minority language communities across the country. We will also work hard to improve bilingualism standards and outcomes in the public service to ensure that, in practice, all public servants are able to work in the language of their choice where the act so provides.

We therefore hope to to be able to achieve many important things and to make considerable progress as part of this modernization of the Official Languages Act.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you.

I'd like to continue along the same lines.

As you well know, it was suggested at one point that the Privy Council Office, rather than the Treasury Board, might be made responsible for the proper administration of the act. I believe it was the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada that discussed that.

Can you or your officials explain to me why it's important that the Treasury Board ensure compliance with the Official Languages Act in all departments?

[Jean-Yves Duclos]

That's an excellent question, Mr. Drouin.

The objective is simple: it is to establish a Canadian government watchdog to ensure that the departments do their job with regard to official languages. We need a central agency, such as the Treasury Board or the Privy Council Office, to do that work as a watchdog in all departments.

That was the case when Stéphane Dion was with us some time ago. He set up the watchdog function in the Privy Council Office. Unfortunately, the subsequent government, which I won't name, removed the watchdog function from PCO. As a result, there was no watchdog when we came to power in 2015.

As you said so well, at the request of organizations advocating the rights of minority language communities across the country, this watchdog role will be restored and returned to the Treasury Board. The timing for this is very good because the Official Languages Act already confers authorities and obligations on the Treasury Board, such as ensuring respect for and the promotion of language rights. However, we will go much further because the act will be reinforced and the Treasury Board will have enhanced powers with which to do that work.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you very much, Mr. Duclos.

Now we'll go to Mademoiselle Chabot for two and a half minutes.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to comment first of all about how fascinating I find all the Treasury Board President's answers about a draft bill, after being unable to come up with numbers in response to the questions I asked a while ago about naval strategy, but what can you do.

I will therefore ask the President of the Treasury Board a question about compensation in connection with the Phoenix pay system.

We know that the Treasury Board Secretariat asked for $7 million under vote 10a, to compensate former employees for damages caused by the Phoenix pay system. Agreements were reached in 2019 and compensation is now being paid. There were other agreements in 2020, and people will be able to submit claims for compensation beginning in the fall, I believe.

Have you planned for additional funds to pay compensation owing to former employees and retirees who were affected by Phoenix pay system problems?

[Jean-Yves Duclos]

Thank you for the question.

To begin with, I can speak more openly about the Official Languages Act because I am a signatory to the Cabinet memorandum that led to the modernization of this act. Not only that, but the Treasury Board is very much involved, as was mentioned.

As for the Phoenix pay system, as you noted, two agreements were signed, one in June 2019 and the other in the fall of 2020. That's what led the Treasury Board Secretariat to introduce the measures needed to pay compensation.

I'm going to ask Ms. Cahill to give you the details on payment of this compensation.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Mr. Duclos, I'd just like you to tell me whether, to your knowledge, the Treasury Board Secretariat is going to request additional funds to respond to all these compensation claims.