Evidence of meeting #100 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was report.
A video is available from Parliament.
Procurement Ombudsman, Office of the Procurement Ombudsman
I wasn't aware of the status of the RCMP investigation. I was aware that there were allegations that there were RCMP investigations.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Were you aware that he openly admitted to doctoring the résumés of some of the clients he was working with to ensure that they would qualify for funding? Were you aware of that?
Procurement Ombudsman, Office of the Procurement Ombudsman
I did watch the testimony, yes.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
It's a form of fraud. It's a forgery.
My question to you, sir, given the information you learned, the information you had in 2022 and 2021 with GC Strategies, is this: In your opinion, was this indicative of a pattern of behaviour by GC Strategies in terms of its shoddy, incomplete work, receiving millions of dollars of taxpayer funds since 2017? Did you cross-reference on other governmental contracts on which GC Strategies successfully and miraculously won the bid?
Procurement Ombudsman, Office of the Procurement Ombudsman
We have to remain focused on the practices of the department, which were ultimately the subject of the review. There was no focus on a specific supplier.
Where there were specific suppliers mentioned in the report, it was for transparency purposes, so I don't want to give the perception that we were somehow reviewing GC Strategies. We were not.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
I get that, but did it pique your interest though, sir, in terms of everything you've heard by way of the irregularity by which GC Strategies operates its business?
Procurement Ombudsman, Office of the Procurement Ombudsman
Yes, absolutely.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
The other aspect I want to touch upon—and I have a half a minute—is that, with all the problems and irregularities that you pointed out in your report, could all of this be fixed by regulation?
Procurement Ombudsman, Office of the Procurement Ombudsman
I think the answer is more complex than the time likely allows.
I will say that a number of structural changes are required. The complexity of the procurement animal is so great that entities do exist only to help other firms comply with the set of regulations.
I've said this before, but I'll say it again: Even someone who has an incredible amount of experience in procurement still finds it incredibly difficult to navigate. I think you can talk to any player in the system, whether it be a buyer, a supplier or a subcontractor. I mean, we heard from subcontractors at this committee who expressed why they use individuals to bid on their behalf. It's because they don't want to participate in the process. As long as that mentality exists, it's very difficult to go directly to those individuals.
Derek, I'm not sure if you want to add.
Conservative
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
It's important to note that Kristian Firth was awarded many contracts by the former Conservative government as well.
I also want to make certain that we debunk something that's been noted, in that there have been payments made for work not done. Did you find that to be the case?
Procurement Ombudsman, Office of the Procurement Ombudsman
I apologize. I had a difficult time—
Liberal
Procurement Ombudsman, Office of the Procurement Ombudsman
I'll just reiterate that we did not look at the actual payments.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
You don't have that reference. You don't know that to be the case.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Okay.
Were the departments co-operating with respect to this review? Did they give you full co-operation? Did you find yourself lacking?
Procurement Ombudsman, Office of the Procurement Ombudsman
I would say that we had full co-operation from the departments.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
You're a professional. You've done procurement in the past, from what I read.
Have you done something of this consequence or of this scope and size yourself?
Procurement Ombudsman, Office of the Procurement Ombudsman
Do you mean in terms of me being a purchaser?
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
I mean as a purchaser in a procurement process like ArriveCAN. Have you been involved in something of this consequence?
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
In the circumstance that we had there, we had a global urgency. We had certainly a lot of moving parts. The death toll was rising. The concern around the country and the world was to find ways to protect Canadians.
Can you tell this committee that the process could have been done in-house?
Procurement Ombudsman, Office of the Procurement Ombudsman
With all due respect, Mr. Chair, I'm not sure that I can answer that, given that I have no IT expertise.
If you're talking about the procurement process specifically—
