Government Operations Committee on Feb. 5th, 2024

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

It is a point of order. How is it that certain committee members are receiving it and not all committee members?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

This is not a point of order, Mr. Sousa. I have explained to you he received.... He did not.... I'm the only one on the committee who has a copy of it, me and the clerk. No one else has received it from this committee.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Mr. Brock has a copy.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm sure Mr. Brock also has copies of ATIPs that are not sent to us. I have copies of ATIPs that have not been sent to the committee. You have emails that have not been sent to the committee because they were sent to you separately. If you were listening, I think you would have heard Mr. Brock at the very beginning of the meeting indicating that he received it from the witnesses, whom I assume are Mr. MacDonald and Mr. Utano, who did receive a copy.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

I appreciate the clarity. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I think it was discussed at the very beginning of the meeting.

Mr. Brock, you're at two minutes and 10 seconds, so you have two minutes and 50 seconds left.

Go ahead, please.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Minh Doan at the time was the vice-president of the CBSA. You'd agree with me, sir, that deleting emails is an extremely serious offence.

[Michel Lafleur]

It would be a breach of the code of conduct to wilfully delete emails.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

It's incumbent on an IT professional, as Minh Doan was, to protect work emails dealing with official matters. Is that correct?

[Michel Lafleur]

It is part of our responsibilities, yes.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

The level of seriousness increases depending on the position a public servant holds. In this case, a low-level administrative data-entry individual is vastly different in terms of the seriousness scale from the vice-president of the CBSA when you reference deleting emails. Would you agree with that?

[Michel Lafleur]

I would agree.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

When was the president, Erin O'Gorman, informed about Mr. Doan's deleted emails?

[Michel Lafleur]

We have not concluded that there were any deleted emails.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

When was she informed, sir?

[Michel Lafleur]

She was informed of the allegations when I received them.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Of the deleted emails...?

[Michel Lafleur]

The allegations as I received them.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

When was it? What was the date?

[Michel Lafleur]

December 11 is when I received them. I can't recall exactly which date I would have—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

When was the Auditor General notified of four years' worth of deleted relevant emails?

[Michel Lafleur]

Again, one point of clarification, I have no evidence that there has been deletion at this point. We are looking into the matter.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Can you answer the question, Mr. Lafleur?

When was the Auditor General notified of four years' worth of a vice-president's deleted email account? When was she notified and by whom?

[Michel Lafleur]

I can say that, during our various engagements with the Office of the Auditor General, we have provided them with all of the information that we had available.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Did you inform the Auditor General yourself, sir, or someone under your control, that the Auditor General received evidence of four years' worth of deleted emails by Minh Doan, vice-president—yes or no?