Evidence of meeting #101 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was investigation.
A video is available from Parliament.
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
That's fine. That is your time, and then we'll discuss the actual distribution of it.
Continue your point of order. Go ahead.
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Mr. Chair, I think a point is getting confused here. Obviously, if the chair, in his capacity as chair, is sent information for the committee, he should be distributing that in a symmetrical way to all or to none.
However, clearly, all of us have different levels of information that we get from different conversations we have. That's extremely normal. Members of the government presumably have conversations with government ministers and government political staff and know things that we don't know, and we have conversations that they are not a part of. Everybody knows things that somebody else doesn't know.
The question is around the distribution of information from the committee. Those things are being conflated.
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
I appreciate the point of order, but to be clear, I have one copy here and the clerk has a copy. Mr. Lafleur and, I'm sure, a dozen people at CBSA, and I'm sure Ms. O'Gorman, the witnesses and the witnesses' lawyer and however many people it has been distributed to....
We'll continue the conversation about distribution.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Irek Kusmierczyk Liberal Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Sure. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just wanted to make sure that the moment that the clerk and the chair are made aware that the information is out there.... For something as important as this, I would—
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
I would disagree and I'll end it there, because I'm aware that certain people have ATIPs that have been shared with them that haven't been shared with anyone else, but that's because.... It's something that if someone has done their research and received information that you have not, that's incumbent upon—
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Irek Kusmierczyk Liberal Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
What I'm saying, Mr. Chair, is that at the moment that you as the chair—or the clerk—is made aware that there is information that is confidential that is being shared, I think it's important that it is shared with the rest of the committee.
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
I would disagree, but on the distribution of this, we will discuss among ourselves how it will be distributed. I'll explain a bit further why. There are rules around it, but I will disagree with you about that.
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
You have three seconds, so why don't we just move to Mrs. Vignola? I'm going to try to get through the rounds so we can get to our committee business.
Go ahead, Mrs. Vignola.
12:10 p.m.
Bloc
Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Lafleur, during the course of your investigation, did you listen to everything our committee said and verify all witness testimony?
12:15 p.m.
Executive Director, Professional Integrity, Canada Border Services Agency
I listened to the testimony, but that was not necessarily to verify what was said.
12:15 p.m.
Executive Director, Professional Integrity, Canada Border Services Agency
Yes.
12:15 p.m.
Bloc
Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Okay.
Regarding the report on the Helios project, can we assume that the current situation, resulting from a confidential document being released by someone somewhere, was intended to bring the matter up for public discussion?
Essentially, can the work of our committee interfere with the conduct of the investigation or undermine its rigour?
12:15 p.m.
Executive Director, Professional Integrity, Canada Border Services Agency
My role is to preserve the integrity of the investigation regardless of what is happening around it.
12:15 p.m.
Bloc
Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Does the release of a confidential document increase the pressure on your team or does it raise questions about the integrity of the investigation?
February 5th, 2024 / 12:15 p.m.
Executive Director, Professional Integrity, Canada Border Services Agency
I would say that we have to manage the public interest as regards the matter in question. The document in question was requested by your committee, and I understand that you will be discussing it. We would however like that information to remain confidential in order to preserve the integrity of the investigation.
12:15 p.m.
Bloc
Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC
It is incredible that we are spending so much time on the ArriveCAN file. The application cost a lot of money, but it was just under 10% of the cost of the sponsorship scandal. We fought to have a commission of inquiry into that at the time, but it took a long time.
Thank you for being here and for the answers you were able to provide.
12:15 p.m.
Executive Director, Professional Integrity, Canada Border Services Agency
Thank you.
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
I apologize. I had someone speaking in my ear. Was there a question toward me, or are you done, Mrs. Vignola?
12:15 p.m.
NDP
12:15 p.m.
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
I'm not sure where this wellspring of generosity came from, but I appreciate it.