Evidence of meeting #101 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was investigation.
A video is available from Parliament.
Executive Director, Professional Integrity, Canada Border Services Agency
I don't want to misspeak. I haven't fully reviewed the ombudsman's report. I do note that they had concerns and that we've taken steps to address those.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Do you know what our response has been in respect to the ombudsman's report? Are you aware of co-operation or recommendations put forward?
Conservative
Executive Director, Professional Integrity, Canada Border Services Agency
I'm sorry, but do you mean the committee?
February 5th, 2024 / 11:40 a.m.
Executive Director, Professional Integrity, Canada Border Services Agency
I am aware that we've strengthened procurement practices.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
Thank you very much.
Mrs. Vignola, please, you have two and half minutes.
Bloc
Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Lafleur, I have read so many documents. Did the Botler AI complaint about CBSA include the word “bribery”? I am trying to remember, but cannot recall whether the complaint included that word.
Executive Director, Professional Integrity, Canada Border Services Agency
I do not have the report in front of me, but I don't think it included that word.
Bloc
Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Okay. I will check again. My memory is quite good, but I don't remember seeing that word.
Does your investigation also include all the documents provided to the committee? Some documents were apparently submitted to the committee and later deleted. Regarding emails, for instance, do you have access to emails that may have been provided, but that people later deleted, thinking that they had been permanently deleted?
Executive Director, Professional Integrity, Canada Border Services Agency
For the purpose of our investigations, I have access to all information available to the agency.
Bloc
Executive Director, Professional Integrity, Canada Border Services Agency
Yes, that includes what you received.
Bloc
Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC
What happens if emails are deleted before you have seen them? How can you access those emails?
Executive Director, Professional Integrity, Canada Border Services Agency
Since our investigations are administrative in nature, we cannot seize people's computers, for instance. So we know we are limited. When we make a copy of an email account, for instance, we copy just what was in it on that day. Emails are retained by the agency or the government for just 30 days. So emails could still be recoverable, depending on the date they were deleted.
Executive Director, Professional Integrity, Canada Border Services Agency
Yes.
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
I'll pick up where my colleague just left off on this question of the deletion of emails. I think there are many questions swirling around this, and I understand there are aspects of this you probably can't speak to. Perhaps the question I'll ask is this: Over the course of your investigation, is there any correspondence, which has either been referenced in ATIP requests or in interviews with witnesses, that you have not been able to obtain through the avenues available to you?
You mentioned you can't seize computers, but I assume you would have access to the CBSA's servers and central repositories of correspondence. Is there any information that has been referenced—specifically, correspondence that has been referenced in ATIP requests or in interviews with witnesses—that you haven't been able to access?
Executive Director, Professional Integrity, Canada Border Services Agency
The lack of documentation on the procurement files is something that has been noted. I believe the procurement ombudsman speaks to that as well. I have seen no evidence to date—again I'm speaking generally, not about any specifics—of evidence being withheld from ATIP requests or being actively deleted to keep them from our investigation.
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Thanks for that.
One line of questioning that my colleague Mr. Brock brought up relates to this preliminary statement of fact. I haven't seen that statement of fact. However, he made some pretty colourful allegations about your own competency as an investigator.
You referenced in your opening remarks the terms of reference under which your investigation is taking place, that there are procedures set out by CBSA for internal investigations. Does anyone check your work as an investigator? Is there any way for us, the committee, to confirm whether or not indeed the preliminary statement of fact followed the protocols and procedures that are established by the agency? How does that process work?
Executive Director, Professional Integrity, Canada Border Services Agency
You can see the policy on government security, which is something that's open to everyone, and the requirements therein related to the sharing of information when there have been concerns raised. We do engage in a yearly quality assurance process through a third party who comes in to look at our work and gives us recommendations with regard to our investigations and in respect to policy, so that is something we have systemically within—