Evidence of meeting #102 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was audit.
A video is available from Parliament.
6:30 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Thank you.
Were you aware, as well, of the allegation that Minh Doan, former vice-president of the CBSA, had deleted and/or mysteriously had four years' worth of emails corrupted? Were you aware of that fact?
6:30 p.m.
Deputy Auditor General, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Yes, we are aware of that.
6:30 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Would you agree with me that this, in and of itself, could constitute an obstruction of justice?
I'll perhaps go to you, Mr. Hayes, with your legal background.
6:30 p.m.
Deputy Auditor General, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
When information is missing, there are always concerns about why. In the case of our audit, we were able to obtain information, emails, that Mr. Doan sent to and from people who were relevant to our audit work, so we—
6:30 p.m.
Conservative
6:30 p.m.
Deputy Auditor General, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
We got a considerable number of emails. We can't say that this is completely comprehensive, because there are emails that would have been deleted along the way.
6:30 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Thank you.
Mr. Hannoush, is it correct that you interviewed Mr. MacDonald and Mr. Utano literally within a few weeks of the release of the report?
6:30 p.m.
Sami Hannoush Principal, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Yes. We interviewed them in January.
6:30 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
When you interviewed both Mr. MacDonald and Mr. Utano, was the report of the Auditor General substantially completed?
6:30 p.m.
Principal, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
We were still in the process of completing the report.
6:30 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Did any of the evidence that you received, either orally or with documentation produced to you by both individuals, in any way factor into the ultimate report that you have shared with Canadians?
6:30 p.m.
Principal, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
What was provided to us orally was confirmed with the two individuals when we interviewed them.
In terms of the materials provided, those were considered in the context of all of the other information we had in our files.
6:35 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Were you also informed that Kelly Bélanger of the CBSA was responsible for project management during the course of the ArriveCAN creation?
6:35 p.m.
Principal, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
I don't recall specifically that.
6:35 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Were you informed by Mr. MacDonald or Mr. Utano that she also was rewarded with a non-advertised promotion?
February 14th, 2024 / 6:35 p.m.
Principal, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
I'm not aware.
6:35 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
No? Okay.
Did you interview the two partners of Botler AI?
6:35 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
You did, yes.
Did you ever receive, either from Botler or from President O'Gorman—or from anyone else from the CBSA, for that matter—the full report regarding the misconduct alleged in the fall of 2022? Did you receive a copy of that?
6:35 p.m.
Auditor General, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Can we just clarify? Are you talking about the internal investigation or the Botler complaint?
6:35 p.m.
Auditor General, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
The team did receive a copy of the Botler complaint, yes.
6:35 p.m.
Conservative