Government Operations Committee on Feb. 14th, 2024

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Sousa, you have the clock as well, and I allowed several of your colleagues to go a bit longer as opposed to the others.

That is our time.

AG Hogan, Mr. Hayes, Mr. Hannoush and Ms. Després—

[Karen Hogan]

If I may, Mr. Chair...?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Yes.

[Karen Hogan]

An honourable member asked a question before around paragraph 1.53. Could I provide the response to the committee?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Sure. We will always welcome responses from you—you don't have to ask. Are you going to tell us now, or in writing?

[Karen Hogan]

Can I do it right now?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Oh, sure.

I'll get to you in two seconds, Ms. Kusie.

Please go ahead.

[Karen Hogan]

It was about paragraph 1.53. I believe it was Ms. Block who asked the name of the vendor, and it was KPMG.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

KPMG. Yikes.

I just want to say “thank you” again.

Ms. Després, I'm sorry you weren't able to join the conversation. It's always a pleasure having you with us, and we look forward to seeing you again, but perhaps after a bit more of a break.

Colleagues, I'll hear from Mrs. Kusie, and then we'll suspend, as we have to switch over.

Mr. Bachrach, you're going to have to leave and come back into a new Zoom, but just hang on right now.

Mrs. Kusie, you have something for us, please.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Yes, I have a matter of hand motion, please.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Yes, please go ahead.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

We have seen now the evolution of the involvement of GC Strategies and the implication of GC Strategies, not only in the Botler and GC Strategies investigation but also in their implication in ArriveCAN.

It started out initially that we believed they were involved in ArriveCAN for $11 million. This is the number that we believed, on all sides of the House...that my colleagues and I brought up many times in the House. Then we find out that it's actually $19 million, thanks to the good work of the Auditor General. We're all, of course, very grateful for this report.

Then we find out today that it actually could be more than the $19 million, given that the incomplete paperwork could result in a number that is greater than that.

Then we find out, due to reports within the media today, that GC Strategies has received, since 2015, $250 million in contracts across this government. I think individuals on all sides of the House are incredibly concerned as to the processes that GC Strategies followed, and we are certainly concerned to get to the bottom of how such a large amount of contracting was awarded to a firm that, as we have seen, actually does none of the work but works as a headhunting firm, as my NDP colleague referred to.

I really think that this behooves a greater investigation and a great evaluation by a body bigger than this committee. It's very hard to dispute that, given the increasing allegations that I've mentioned here today.

I present the following motion. It reads:

That, in light of new reports that GC Strategies has received $258 million since 2015 in government contracts, including 46 sole-sourced contracts, the committee call on the Auditor General of Canada to conduct a performance audit, on a priority basis, of all payments to GC Strategies and its contracts with the Government of Canada, including all departments, agencies and Crown corporations, including all subcontracts which GC Strategies has awarded under those contracts; and that the committee report these findings to the House.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks.

I understand from our clerk that this was sent out an hour ago.

Mr. Sousa, you have the floor.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

On this side of the House, we also want to get down to the bottom of these issues and these items. I'd like to propose an amendment, and it would be as follows, if I may: “That in light of new reports that GC—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm sorry; can I interrupt you? Do you have it written down?

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

I do have it written down. I can share it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Yes, please share it with the clerk while you're reading it or as soon as you finish reading it. Thanks, Mr. Sousa.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

It's in keeping with the proposal, and it would read as follows:

That, in light of new reports that GC Strategies has received millions of dollars in government contracts, including a number of sole-sourced contracts—

I'm removing “$258”, and I'm removing “since 2015” and removing the number 46—it could be “a number” of them.

—the committee request the Auditor General of Canada to conduct a performance audit, on a priority basis, of all payments to GC Strategies, including and specifically with Kristian Firth and/or his business partner, Darren Anthony, before the founding of GC Strategies, and all contracts with the Government of Canada, including all departments, agencies and Crown corporations, including all subcontracts which GC Strategies and the aforementioned have been awarded under those contracts.

Then I remove the rest of it. I'm saying to go after all of it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Are you sending it out?

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

It's being sent to you guys right now.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Okay, thanks.

We'll start with Mrs. Vignola on the amendment, please.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I'm fine with either one. If there's something fishy, if there's something wrong, the important thing is making sure we find it, so we can make the processes better. The goal isn't to point fingers. This isn't a people's court. The history teacher in me feels the need to point out that people's courts led to tens of thousands of women being burned throughout history. Let's not hold a people's court in this day and age, please. We are here to examine the processes, and make suggestions and recommendations that will improve them.

I'm fine with the amendment, even if it lacks the specific references Ms. Kusie had in the original motion. It gives us the ability to explore whether the company received more or less than $258 million in contracts, or more or less than x number of contracts. We can take a deep dive.

What bothers me, though, is removing the part about the committee reporting its findings to the House. In reporting to the House, we bring our recommendations and findings to the House's attention. I'm less amenable to that part of the amendment.

If it's okay with the member, I propose a friendly amendment to leave in the part about the committee reporting its findings to the House.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We've just got Mr. Sousa's amendment in French. That's wonderful. We'll send it out.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I'll repeat what I said. Teachers are used to that. They are always repeating themselves.

Given what I said a moment ago, I propose a friendly amendment to leave in the part about the committee reporting its findings to the House, so that we can pass on our findings, input and recommendations based on the report.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks.

I see Mr. Genuis on the subamendment of Ms. Vignola to reinstate “report it to the House”.