Evidence of meeting #106 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was benefits.
A video is available from Parliament.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, both, for being here.
I appreciate the deliberations and the concerns that you've raised. These are concerns that are evident for all of us, because we certainly want to make and would like to see an easier transition between providers in providing the care necessary for employees. I appreciate your deliberations on that issue.
Do you have discussions with TBS? You get weekly reports. Is that right?
12:05 p.m.
Seth Sazant
We get biweekly reports.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
You are seeing the advancements and the considerations that are being addressed.
12:05 p.m.
Seth Sazant
There is no question that there has been improvement over recent months. I've made reference to that quite a few times.
Again, I think the starting point that we're measuring improvement from is pretty atrocious, so as we see improvements, there are still other problems and other issues that we need to see resolved.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Are you of the impression that they're not trying to improve? Is there push-back on this issue?
Is there a desire to provide something better for employees, in your mind, by all parties and stakeholders concerned?
12:05 p.m.
Seth Sazant
I don't think it would be fair to characterize it by saying there is push-back to trying to improve the situation. I think all parties want to improve the situation.
Our concern remains that we're eight months into the transition to a new contract and we're still seeing major problems occurring. Also, our concern relates to ensuring that, ultimately, people are going to be made whole for health problems that have happened, and what that would even mean is a question.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
I think those are shared concerns. I think all sides have the same dilemma here. We're all trying to improve upon it. That is my impression, at least from what I'm hearing and from the discussions you've been having with the other side and the employer in this case.
In that respect, when we hear about whistle-blowers and this notion, are you concerned that the government or the employer is acting to punish people for reaching out and expressing their concerns, when we're all trying to find a resolution? Is that a concern for you?
12:05 p.m.
Seth Sazant
I want to be clear that, as PSAC, I was called here as a pension and benefits officer. When it comes to issues related to whistle-blowing, I'm not an expert there. That's not something I can speak to in any meaningful way.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Are we not freely expressing and sharing the deficiencies, so we can find improvement? Is that not happening? Is that not explicit?
12:10 p.m.
Seth Sazant
As I've mentioned, in my role, we meet frequently with Treasury Board officials and the goal is to improve the situation.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
We're going over these issues. We're going over the issues that have shortcomings that we're trying to resolve. I don't think anyone is being held back, harmed or punished. The idea is to try to find resolution.
What is your opinion now of the pharmacare program that's being proposed?
We're fortunate. Those of us who are watching TV know that employers of government including elected officials have a health plan. There's an opportunity to support the many Canadians that don't. How do you find our pharmacare program, which is being proposed alongside the NDP?
12:10 p.m.
Seth Sazant
I haven't seen the details of exactly what is being proposed there. It's difficult to comment on PSAC's position on what that pharmacare could look like.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Can you comment on the idea of why it's being proposed? Why do you believe government is looking at trying to provide similar services to all Canadians?
12:10 p.m.
Seth Sazant
On record, I think we've been general supporters of public pharmacare. Certainly we'd be very pleased to have a good look at exactly what is proposed, but in a general sense, public pharmacare is something that PSAC has supported.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
For members who are in the union and others who have this benefit plan, do you believe it should be available to others outside?
12:10 p.m.
Seth Sazant
Again, we believe in public pharmacare. We believe that people should be able to access the medicines they require.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
The transitions are tough. When we talk about outsourcing, who within government would be prepared to do some of the work that you're looking at to resolve...?
12:10 p.m.
Seth Sazant
It's difficult to answer this. When it comes to outsourcing, I'm not sure that this is an example of outsourcing. The administration of benefits is traditionally done by an outside company.
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
12:10 p.m.
Bloc
Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'm going to ask my previous question again, but I'll be a little more specific: Do the unions intend to take legal action against the employer in the same way they did for Phoenix?
12:10 p.m.
Seth Sazant
Yes, I can confirm that.
One of the legal avenues that we've taken and that I've mentioned is the grievance mechanism. That is a mechanism we see as possibly allowing us to get around a negotiating table to resolve that grievance.
We're seeking remedies for our members in the context of that grievance, including remedies such as general damages, remedies under the Canadian Human Rights Act and things like that. We are certainly exploring other possibilities as well in terms of legal avenues.
12:10 p.m.
Bloc
Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Thank you very much.
I'll give you an idea of the problems MSH International is causing. I just received an email from a gentleman who is abroad and has not received any news about his claims, which amount to a few thousand dollars. He needs to submit more, and he doesn't even know if the claims he submitted have already been looked at or received. That gives you an idea of all the stress it's causing.
Since I have less than a minute left, I'd like to introduce a motion that we can discuss later. It reads as follows:
The Committee requests the Auditor General of Canada (AG) i. To conduct an analysis of the contract between the Government of Canada and the Canada Life Insurance Company in relation to the Public Service Health Care Plan; ii. To compare the services offered by Sun Life of Canada with those offered by Canada Life; iii. To report to the Committee as soon as possible.
The motion should have been sent. If it's not yet been sent, it will be soon. Thank you.
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
Did I hear correctly that you're just reading it into the record for future debate?