Government Operations Committee on Feb. 28th, 2024

[Arianne Reza]

PSPC is accountable for the procurement process when it is the contracting authority, so we are accountable—

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

PSPC is not an amorphous entity. There are people in positions with responsibilities. Which people are accountable for the fact that PSPC did not uphold government policy?

[Arianne Reza]

I think it is across the contracting authority. It's hard to put it on one person. Is it the procurement officer? Is it working in...? There is a line of accountability, and we are looking at making sure that the practices around it become more consistent.

I see that you're frowning, but the procurement ombudsman's report focused on several things like inconsistent documentation, so we're taking accountability for that. As for the use of the price bands, which were designed to try to create a fair, open transparent procurement process for SMEs, we're taking accountability to see how we can change them.

The two other key recommendations that we feel are about accountability are around this issue of swapping out resources as well as the prescriptive procurement that was associated with GC Strategies in the competitive process.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

To me, Ms. Reza, these seem like fairly egregious oversights, and my question was really about individual accountability.

Accountability, to me, means that, when government policy is so egregiously ignored, there should be individual accountability. It's not “we all share a piece of the puzzle, and everyone is to blame a little bit, but no one in particular”. These are hierarchical organizations. That's why there are titles like assistant and associate and deputy and minister.

Where does the buck stop?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Could we have a brief answer, please?

[Arianne Reza]

It is a construct of delegated authority—

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

The bucks didn't stop. They just kept going out.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm afraid that is our time.

Perhaps, Ms. Reza, you can get back to us in writing for Mr. Bachrach's question.

Mrs. Kusie, you have five minutes.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

First of all, Ms. Reza, my team just wants to verify that you're in the room by yourself. There was some concern around the table.

Okay. Thank you very much for verifying that.

I want to go back to this story in the press today, which is just absolutely breathtaking, that the ArriveCAN file was absent from the list of delicate files submitted to the minister. There were 10 files. It's astounding to me that, out of 10 files, ArriveCAN was not in that top 10.

What was in that was the national shipbuilding strategy, F-35 fighter jets, CP-140 Auroras, 16 P-8A Poseidons and the dental care program, yet somehow ArriveCAN, an issue that had been relevant for 10 months prior to the arrival of the minister, was excluded from this.

I understand, Ms. Reza, that you did not arrive in your position until November 2, 2023, as per your bio on the Internet, but previous to that you were, of course, the associate deputy minister. Did you not have a hand in preparing that briefing book? Certainly I think that, as the associate deputy minister....

May I ask who your predecessor was, please?

[Arianne Reza]

It was Paul Thompson.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Did Mr. Thompson not work in tandem with you, or did you not work in tandem with Mr. Thompson to prepare this briefing binder, which left out this all-important issue?

[Arianne Reza]

Just to confirm, I am alone because I am sick at home.

In terms of my participation, I certainly participated in creating the briefing material. I was on vacation at the time. However, again I want to emphasize that this was to onboard Minister Duclos in a very large portfolio with very many different possibilities of files coming up in immediacy.

There was no intent not to bring that on in terms of ArriveCAN as immediate. It was under review by the Auditor General at the time.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Yes, and for all of these reasons, it's still shocking to me that this was not included in a binder.

I had the very good fortune of being a public servant for close to 15 years. One of those years was in a ministerial office, and I can't fathom leaving out something that was an issue so big that it could potentially bring down the government, I would even dare say. I can't fathom that it would be excluded from such a binder.

When Minister Duclos arrived, did he ask any questions about ArriveCAN? Certainly he must have been interested in an immediate brief on such an important issue, an issue that has seized the Canadian press in recent months. Did he ask for an update on this, noting its absence from the briefing book of 10 issues?

[Arianne Reza]

Thank you very much for your question.

As I noted, over the course of the fall, the Botler allegations came out, the AG report and preparation for the OGGO committee. As we saw more on GC Strategies, more briefings occurred with the minister's office and with the minister.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Can you expand, then, upon your conversations? Did he ever raise concern about this then $54-million app, which we know now is a minimum of $60 million, probably even more, because the documentation wasn't corrected? Did he ask for more specifics about it? Did he raise any concern about a two-person IT company? Did he ask for a full inventory of this two-person IT company? Can you recall anything he asked for specifically relative to this, since it was absent from the briefing book?

[Arianne Reza]

Thank you very much for your question.

As I've noted, when we came even in November or December to OGGO with the minister and we had a conversation about ArriveCAN, he had been briefed. He had shown an interest in understanding. He was very concerned about the probity of the contracting and the contracting authorities and the spend at GC Strategies, and what the department was doing in terms of lessons learned.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Now, I certainly hope Minister Jaczek would have done a good job of briefing him relative to this briefing book. Certainly, as an incoming minister, I would have the expectation of my colleague providing me a briefing on the most important issue in procurement at the time.

Was it ever suggested to the minister to talk to cabinet colleagues or the Minister of Public Safety about what was going on with ArriveCAN, or anything like that?

[Arianne Reza]

Thank you very much.

I will have to defer to the minister on those discussions. We spent a lot of time, in PSPC, talking to the Public Health Agency and to CBSA to better understand the contracts.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Did the minister ever brief the Prime Minister on ArriveCAN? After its being excluded from the briefing book, hopefully he recognized the importance of the issue, received some briefing somewhere, somehow, and then talked to the Prime Minister about it. Did this ever happen?

[Arianne Reza]

I have not spoken to the Prime Minister about this.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Did the minister speak to the Prime Minister about ArriveCAN—

[Arianne Reza]

I'm sorry, but I don't—

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

—as his issue, wanting to inform the Prime Minister of what is possibly the most important issue since the 2021 election?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

That is our time.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you very much, Chair.