Government Operations Committee on March 13th, 2024

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

If requested by the RCMP, will GC Strategies' files, computers, emails, cellphones and any area where data is stored or devices that have been used to communicate with the Government of Canada as part of its investigation into arrive scam...will you voluntarily submit that information to the RCMP?

[Kristian Firth]

We will deal directly with the RCMP once it contacts us.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Sir, how much did you state, in your previous appearance before this committee, that you were paid to work on ArriveCAN?

[Kristian Firth]

For the ArriveCAN application build, which is what we gave our numbers for to the committee last year, we said it was approximately $11 million. That was the application build.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Though you've said that all of the reporting about your company since your last appearance has been false, there's been heavy media reporting about the work of Canada's Auditor General. She detailed a different number.

Is the information that the Auditor General has submitted incorrect?

[Kristian Firth]

Yes, it is. We were actually asked by the Auditor General to give comment prior to the report being published on whether we could support the numbers she was putting in there.

Actually, I remember from my previous testimony—when I was ridiculed and called “disingenuous” for not having the true cost of ArriveCAN—we discussed the fact that there were three COVID-19 pandemic contracts. There was not one that was solely set aside for ArriveCAN, so I can understand why it was hard for the Auditor General, with her also indicating that some of the task authorizations for ArriveCAN could have had resources doing no work.

After my testimony, how I got the numbers there is that I painstakingly went through every single invoice and spoke to every consultant to get an understanding of what their level of effort was for the ArriveCAN application build, and my numbers were in line with what Mr. Utano testified last time.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Okay. That's information you ought to have had at your last appearance, but I'll take the Auditor General's word that the number was in excess of $19 million, which, of course, is not the number that you submitted to this committee.

At your second appearance before this committee, you testified that you did not meet with government officials outside of government offices, and we now know that you did that on multiple occasions.

Why did you lie to this committee?

[Kristian Firth]

It was not a lie. I was just unaware. I hadn't checked all of my Outlook.

However, I can tell the committee today that I have met with officials outside of work.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Of course, we know that, sir, and we understand you're telling us that now, having been caught in the lie.

The question is this: Why did you believe it was necessary to attempt that deception before this parliamentary committee?

[Kristian Firth]

It wasn't deception. I just wasn't informed of all the meetings that I had or did not have. I didn't have access to my Outlook.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

What are the names of all the government officials you have met with outside of government offices?

[Kristian Firth]

I'm more than happy to provide that information in writing, but I'm not prepared to do that right now, televised.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Are you able to name a single...?

Well, sir, it's not at your discretion which answers you're able to provide in writing. I'm asking you a question. Are you refusing to answer the question?

[Kristian Firth]

No. I gave you my answer. I'm not refusing to answer the question. I will give you the names—

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

So what are the names, sir? What are the names?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I have to interrupt. That is our time. Perhaps we can get to it in the next round.

Mr. Sousa, please.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Firth, before we begin, have you ever been approached separately by any individual members of this committee or any other committee, besides the chair?

[Kristian Firth]

No, I have not.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Have people been trying to reach out to you?

[Kristian Firth]

No one from the committee has.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Okay.

You've already indicated how much you received for work you did related to the contracts for ArriveCAN. How much was that?

[Kristian Firth]

I gave over, in October, approximately 11 million dollars' worth of invoices.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

How much commission was that? How much did you receive for your services? You have costs there, right?

[Kristian Firth]

Yes, approximately $2.5 million is the gross number.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

I mean net to you.