Evidence of meeting #108 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was contract.
A video is available from Parliament.
1:05 p.m.
Partner, GC Strategies
What I'm saying is that every person right who now can't go directly...any firm that currently can't go directly to the federal government has the opportunity to. There's a process it can follow to become a qualified vendor.
People who typically go through firms like mine are the ones who either don't already immediately have the qualifications to do so or are just choosing not to. The other ones are independents who would not need to.
1:05 p.m.
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
In your view, is the government's internal IT capacity a constraint on directly procuring IT services?
1:05 p.m.
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
In 2013, the federal government reduced the IT capacity significantly through cuts to internal IT departments. Do you see them as contributing to the situation you've described?
1:05 p.m.
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
You've been working in this line of work for the government since 2007. When those cuts happened in 2013, did they contribute to the situation we see now, whereby there's a reliance on these IT recruitment agencies to compile the vendors that are required to complete projects?
1:05 p.m.
Partner, GC Strategies
I'm sorry. I can't speculate on the whole industry. I apologize for that.
1:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
Thanks, Mr. Bachrach.
We'll go to Mr. Genuis, please, for five minutes, and then Mrs. Atwin.
1:05 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Mr. Firth, I want to circle back on some numbers that we discussed in my last round.
You told this committee that you and your partner put in about 30 to 40 hours per month over two years and that your take-home at the end of the whole ArriveCAN process was $2.5 million.
I think your figures understate the reality of how much you made. Your invoices don't line up with your own figures, and your figures don't match the Auditor General's.
I think the realities are understated by your numbers. Even if we take your numbers at face value, doing that math—say 40 hours per month over two years, leading to $2.5 million take-home—it would measure out that you earned about $2,600 per hour.
Sir, how do you justify to taxpayers that you, as a recruiter, were effectively billing them at over $2,500 per hour for your involvement in the ArriveCAN app?
1:05 p.m.
Partner, GC Strategies
You have to look more at the fact that this is not an hourly job. It says 30 to 40, but I can be working in the evenings, I can be working in the daytime and I can be working on the weekends.
You must appreciate that there's a lot more that goes into just getting a set.... This is not an hourly job, first of all—
1:05 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Sir, I asked you about the numbers. I just asked you to tell us how many hours, and I did a simple calculation based on your estimates.
Okay, maybe you work on weekends. You think your weekend rate is $5,000 an hour and your weekday rate is only $1,000 an hour.
The point is that I just did the math based on your, respectfully, lowball numbers, and it comes out to $2,600 per hour.
Do you think, for Canadians who are struggling under the burden of taxation and other challenges in terms of affordability and the cost of living, you can really justify that you, recruiting other people to do IT work, were billing at $2,600 an hour?
1:05 p.m.
Partner, GC Strategies
First of all, I don't make this decision. The government obviously values what I and my firm, and firms like ours, do, so I can't comment on what my hourly wage is. I can just comment on the fact that we had 55 contracts prior to these ones at the CBSA, for which the government saw value in everything that we do.
I don't make the decisions. The government makes—
1:05 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
I actually think you make a fair point there. This is a question that I should be asking of the government. If they're paying you at this rate, why are they doing it? These are questions that I think we need answers to.
Sir, I want to ask you about Dalian's role in this deal. We found out some very striking things about Dalian recently.
As far as you were able to see, what did they do for the $7.9 million that they purportedly got for their involvement in ArriveCAN?
1:10 p.m.
Partner, GC Strategies
I'm sorry. I had no interactions with.... During ArriveCAN, they would have had their own contract, and I had my own. I didn't have any interactions with them.
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Did you have any discussions with them before or after the bid?
1:10 p.m.
Partner, GC Strategies
No, not at all. They were not part of my.... They were not part of any of the three—
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
You're telling us that you never discussed the ArriveCAN work with Dalian.
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
1:10 p.m.
Partner, GC Strategies
No, there was.... We've spoken on a mobile application, but we've never spoken about contracts. We've never spoken about ArriveCAN specifically. It may have been mobile work on new applications.
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Sir, did you or did you not have discussions with Dalian about the ArriveCAN project, the contracts, the work that was done, anything to do with ArriveCAN?
1:10 p.m.
Partner, GC Strategies
We had conversations, but they were way after the contracts were awarded. This has nothing to do with back-and-forth before any contracts. This was communication.
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Okay. Do you know what they actually did?