Government Operations Committee on March 13th, 2024

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Prior to that, you had been dealing with Botler and the two founders of that company. They are the ones who came to PSPC to complain about the processes of their contract, but there was no contract. Is that correct?

[Kristian Firth]

That's correct.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

They expressed concerns that there was privileged information or.... I don't understand. Explain to me what Botler's issue is with regard to your engagement.

[Kristian Firth]

That's actually a good question.

We're still unclear on what the misconduct allegations are towards our company. My understanding is that it's been referred to the RCMP. We have not been contacted, so unfortunately I cannot give comment on what those allegations are. We're just not aware of what they are.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

You didn't have a contract, and Botler didn't have a contract, but you were trying to promote Botler in accessing opportunities with government situations. Is that correct?

[Kristian Firth]

Yes. We actually even at one time were starting to try to get them their own vehicle, so the government could miss the middleman out and go direct to Botler.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

How many people did Botler employ, at that point?

[Kristian Firth]

They were a two-person company out of a penthouse.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

They were trying to gain contracts with government through your support, through your relationships, through your experience. Is that how it worked?

[Kristian Firth]

Yes. We were offering free business development in sales and leads to help them get contracts within the federal government.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

That's our time, Mr. Sousa.

Mrs. Vignola, go ahead, please, for six minutes.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Firth, thank you for being with us today. I know how difficult it can be. I'm going to start with some fairly simple questions that refer to testimony you've given in the past.

When you first appeared in October 2022, you said that the government had approached you “to staff a team under their management and direction for a time, a material engagement”, which you agreed to. Then you said, “We are, however, very proud of the team we gave the Government of Canada, whom they managed and gave direction to throughout the project.”

If I understand correctly, your role was only to recruit. You did not do any project management, supervision or monitoring of the work done by the people you recruited. Do I understand correctly?

[Kristian Firth]

That's correct. We had no hand in operational budget management either.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Okay, thank you.

Basically, you were acting as a payment intermediary between the government and the human resources, while taking between 15% and 30% of the total amount.

[Kristian Firth]

Yes. That is correct. Actually, it's in the evidence package that I've given forth to you.

Over the whole duration of GC Strategies' history with all federal contracts, approximately 21% is our gross margin for all 65 contracts we've had with the federal government.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Okay.

In October 2022, in response to a question similar to the one Mr. Sousa asked you earlier about whether you had been contacted by elected officials or public servants, you said that it was public servants. You said that was the case for the harassment application project and for the ArriveCAN project. Was that also the case for the COVID Alert app?

[Kristian Firth]

For COVID Alert, somebody from Canadian Digital Service reached out to me, understanding the work we had been doing previously on ArriveCAN. That was how the communication started. They were understanding what capacity we had for teams, what our teams were actually doing at ArriveCAN and the types of categories and skill sets they had. That was primarily for COVID Alert.

Could you please repeat the other two?

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

The other two I mentioned were to introduce COVID Alert.

You were also contacted directly by public servants for the Botler AI harassment app and for the ArriveCAN app. Is that correct?

[Kristian Firth]

Yes, for the ArriveCAN app, that was PSPC. It was a government official who reached out to us. For Botler, nobody actually reached out to us. There was this understanding that there were harassment charges that were heavily publicized in the public safety portfolio. That was when I reached out to Botler, understanding that there were several clients that could be in need of their services.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

What happened with Botler AI is that you were included in a contract that had already been awarded to Dalian and Coradix. Have I understood correctly?

[Kristian Firth]

That's correct. We were advised by CBSA to work with Dalian and Coradix.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

The contract was reserved for indigenous businesses. At that time, did you feel that Dalian was being used to boost the statistics on contracts awarded to indigenous businesses? The last I heard, you are not indigenous, and neither is Botler AI.

[Kristian Firth]

I'm sorry. I'm not the expert to answer that question. I'm not familiar with the indigenous procurement process. I couldn't give a comment on that. I'm sorry.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you.

I want to go back to the COVID Alert app.

You said that an official from the Canadian Digital Service had contacted you. Did officials from the Public Health Agency of Canada contact you as well?

[Kristian Firth]

During the inception of the COVID Alert contract, it was just purely Canadian Digital Service's resources.