Yes.
Evidence of meeting #111 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was first.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #111 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was first.
A video is available from Parliament.
March 20th, 2024 / 6 p.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
In that report, it suggests that:
Given the urgency created by the pandemic, the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat encouraged government organizations to focus on results while [still] demonstrating due diligence and controls on expenditures. To support this direction, the [secretariat] invoked exceptions so that certain procurements were not subject to the provisions of the trade agreements and the Government Contract Regulations and allowed for the consideration of a non-competitive approach to address urgent needs.
I think this is evidenced as a really important piece that the Auditor General has focused on in her report in direct relation to the fact that the public service is losing funding, and then the vulnerability of the government to outsourced contracts increases.
There's a direct relationship between how you fund the public service and how vulnerable the government is to fraudulent, private, outsourced contracts. It's clear in the CBSA instance, for example, that they were unable to secure the IT technology here in Canada or within the public service. They were forced to outsource a really critical and important piece of an app to these contractors, who had layers upon layers of subcontracts within which we're still discovering the mess that exists today. This extreme loss of funding, this extremely ineffective use of money, was very clear in her report.
Do you agree with me that there is a direct relationship between not properly funding our public service and creating vulnerabilities in procuring the kind of technology or the kinds of skills that are actually needed by the government?
Do you see the relationship there?
6 p.m.
President of the Treasury Board
As you know, in much of our public service a vast majority of public servants are unionized, so we work very closely with the unions in order to ensure that the public service employees have the supports they need. A vast majority are under a collective agreement that has been renegotiated, and we will continue to work with the unions to make sure the public servants have what they need going forward.
6 p.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Why didn't you consult the unions, then, in relation to your cuts? The president of the Public Service Alliance of Canada was promised that the government would meet with PSAC in relation to any cuts that would affect full-time employment. They've told me that they have not been met with or consulted with—they've been told and demanded.
6 p.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
When was the last time you met with the president of the PSAC?
6:05 p.m.
President of the Treasury Board
We are in touch on a regular basis, and I have heard from him today.
6:05 p.m.
President of the Treasury Board
We've addressed a number of items, and I won't be disclosing the contents of our private conversation in this meeting.
6:05 p.m.
NDP
6:05 p.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
It's my time, please.
I haven't even put my question yet. How can you know what I'm asking?
6:05 p.m.
NDP
6:05 p.m.
NDP
6:05 p.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
I don't think so, because you're not actually trying to address the issues that are facing our public service.
I asked you a clear question. Did you address the cuts with the Public Service Alliance of Canada? It was something that was publicly promised at the time of a national strike.
6:05 p.m.
President of the Treasury Board
I will ask Francis Trudel, the head of the office of the chief human resources officer, to address that question, as he is touch with the unions on a daily basis.
Go ahead, Francis.
6:05 p.m.
NDP
6:05 p.m.
Francis Trudel Associate Chief Human Resources Officer, Treasury Board Secretariat
Thank you for the question.
Engagement with unions is certainly part of the collective bargaining process. It is an ongoing exchange we have with our union partners at multiple governance forums, including what we call the NJC process, the National Joint Council, where all that—