Government Operations Committee on March 26th, 2024

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

I was just wondering if there were discussions or dialogue happening about shared practices or best practices within those government entities that were facing the same thing, or were we flying on our own on this one?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Could you give us a quick answer, Mr. Moor?

[Jonathan Moor]

We did have many conversations with our colleagues around the world, but I think we were slightly flying blind, because every requirement was different.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Brock, go ahead, please.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

When he was at the CBSA, who did Minh Doan directly report to?

[Jonathan Moor]

He reported to the president, John Ossowski, and it was the same for me.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Okay.

I'm sure you're familiar with the allegations that Minh Doan deleted tens of thousands of emails over four years.

[Jonathan Moor]

I'm aware of the allegations.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

When did you first become aware of those, sir?

[Jonathan Moor]

It was when the matter was raised in committee. I was not aware before then.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I'm sorry, but what did you say?

[Jonathan Moor]

It was when it was raised here in the committee. I wasn't aware of it before then.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Okay.

Would you agree with me, sir, that deleting four years' worth of relevant emails—not because they were corrupted, but deliberately deleting them—during the ArriveCAN development and outlay would potentially constitute not only a highly suspicious action on the part of Minh Doan but also potentially an illegal one under the Criminal Code? Obstruction of justice comes to mind.

Do you believe that's worthy of an internal investigation?

[Jonathan Moor]

The CBSA does take allegations of wrongdoing very seriously, and it is my understanding that the matter is being looked at.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Is the CBSA investigating that internally, yes or no?

[Jonathan Moor]

I do not know if they're investigating that specifically, but—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Will you look into that and will you provide us with a response?

[Jonathan Moor]

I'd be happy for the agency to provide a response.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you.

Are you aware of whether or not that allegation of deleting tens of thousands of emails over four years has been reported to the RCMP?

[Jonathan Moor]

I'm not aware of whether it's been reported to the RCMP.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Okay.

I want to circle back to GC Strategies. There are a couple of issues that were raised in the Auditor General's report.

First of all, the CBSA informed the Auditor General during the report stage that GC Strategies was awarded their initial contract on the basis of a proposal that was submitted.

The CBSA indicated that it had discussions at the time with three potential contractors about submitting a proposal to develop the ArriveCAN app, yet through investigation, the Auditor General found that only one proposal was received by the CBSA, but not for GC Strategies.

Why would the agency deliberately mislead the Auditor General?

[Jonathan Moor]

My understanding is that at the start of the pandemic—and again, I was not directly involved in these discussions—they mocked up what the first version of ArriveCAN would look like and asked three organizations—Deloitte, Apple and GC Strategies—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I'm aware of that.

Why would the CBSA deliberately mislead the Auditor General by saying that it had received a proposal from GC Strategies when in fact it had not? Why would they deliberately mislead?

[Jonathan Moor]

I'm not aware of that and I'm sure—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Did you read the Auditor General's report?