Government Operations Committee on March 26th, 2024

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Moor, I believe we ran out of time when I was asking you about Mr. Doan and the decision to pick GC Strategies. His initial response was that a team of 1,400 people made this decision, and then when asked, he narrowed it down to six directors general.

Did this decision come down to these directors general? Were they giving instruction or advice?

I'll let you answer that first.

[Jonathan Moor]

I think Mr. Doan was referring to the fact that there are 1,400 people in the information, science and technology branch. Those people reported directly to him as the vice-president.

I think it's also clear that the technical authorities for all of these contracts were with the border technologies innovation directorate. As I have said before, the executive director of that was Mr. Utano. The DG of that was Mr. MacDonald.

I cannot comment on what Mr. Doan actually said back in the evidence. I have looked at the evidence, but I can't comment on the detail of that.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

I'm asking about the six directors general. Mr. Doan was asked to submit those names. I'm not sure if they were ever submitted.

I'm asking about the roles of those people and if you can name them.

[Jonathan Moor]

I think we can go back and check to see whether the names were....

He was referring to the directors general who reported to him. I think in this case, it would be unlikely that all of those directors general would be involved in a decision like this. It would have been the responsibility of the DG of the area of his organization who was doing this contracting.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Would you be able to submit the names of those six directors general to the committee?

[Jonathan Moor]

I would be very happy to submit those names, if they have not been already submitted.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

When examining options for suppliers, what evidence was CBSA relying on that indicated that GC Strategies could provide the federal government value for money?

[Jonathan Moor]

Again, in the evidence given last week by PSPC, it was on a TBIPS, a task-based informatics professional service, so they were already a qualified vendor. That was confirmed by PSPC.

In terms of value for money, that's part of the contract authority's responsibilities. The technical authority is responsible for the statement of work and the technical ability of the contractors to do that work. I would refer back to PSPC for any questions around the value for money through the contract authority.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

There are issues identified by the Auditor General and the procurement ombud. In their reports, the issues are the result of shortcomings in the directive on the management of procurement—or rather, the guidance to managers about that directive.

What's your view on that?

[Jonathan Moor]

This is one of the reasons we have asked all of our delegated managers to do the four training courses. It's to remind them of what their responsibilities are under the procurement directive. It's also around our other procurement improvement plan activities.

For example, the executive procurement review committee will also be checking that we're complying with all of those rules and regulations. Alex's team has already updated our standard operating procedures with checklists to ensure that we are complying. We're also putting in place an assurance review process, which will allow us to go into the individual files and ensure that there has been compliance across all of the files that we look at.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Has this been shared with the entire department? Are people being trained on this? What's the latest on that?

[Jonathan Moor]

Everyone has been trained in terms of the first line of defence. We're now training, within Alex's directorate, the individuals who will be doing the assurance reviews. We will also be training the executive procurement review committee in order to ensure that they have all of the knowledge available to them to be able to exercise their judgment correctly.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Regarding the new guidance, will you be reporting back in some capacity on compliance?

[Jonathan Moor]

Yes. Reviews will be summarized on a quarterly basis and they will be reported back to the executive committee. We've already piloted the reviews, but our first quarterly report will be in July.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks, Mr. Bains.

Mrs. Vignola, please go ahead.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Moor, you said earlier on that you were unaware that members of your team had received an award from the Canadian Materials Procurement and Management Institute, or CIMG.

How is it possible that a manager wouldn't have that information and congratulate his employees? It's important for employees to get a little pat on the back from their superior.

[Jonathan Moor]

I'll ask Alex to give you a detailed answer.

I am disappointed, because in my branch we do like to celebrate success. I thought it would have been indicated to me.

[Alexandre Martel]

I reported to the CBSA comptroller, who reported to the vice-president. That's why—

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Okay. Basically, there are lots of steps involved before getting a comment from anyone.

Mr. Leahy, earlier on, we talked a little about the CARM application. I'm raising the matter again because I see a number of things that remind me of the ArriveCAN case. There's a lot of goodwill and people want to speed up the process, but we can't disregard the fact that borders are key trade locations.

How many pages were in the technical specifications submitted by Deloitte for the CARM application, and how many comments were made about those specifications?

[Mike Leahy]

Do you mean the contract?

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I'm talking about the technical specifications. How many pages were there, and how many comments were made?

[Mike Leahy]

There were several documents. I think the request was made last week, and there are over 600 pages in all. There was also a list of comments from CBSA staff about the documents.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Were they CBSA officers or just IT officers?

[Mike Leahy]

It's both. It's the entire CBSA team.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Okay.

This system is supposed to enter operation on May 14. Will it turn out to be another disaster like Phoenix?