Government Operations Committee on March 26th, 2024

[Mike Leahy]

It's May 13.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Okay.

Are we going to end up with software that hasn't been tested enough?

[Mike Leahy]

No. We've been testing it for two and a half years. It's been divided into six components, but it's been properly tested.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Has it actually cost $80 million so far?

[Mike Leahy]

Are you referring to the development budget?

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Yes, that's right.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

That is your time, Mrs. Vignola.

[Mike Leahy]

I'll just answer that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

You can get back to us in writing unless you have the information there.

[Mike Leahy]

The development budget to date is $438 million, and $182 million was paid to Deloitte. That's what came up at the last committee. The question was how much we have paid Deloitte and how much we have spent on the development of this. It was $438 million on development and $182 million to Deloitte for development.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks very much.

Mr. Bachrach, please go ahead, sir.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Moor, in response to a previous question, you indicated that no one raised red flags about GC Strategies until this committee's investigation began.

Do you stand by that statement?

[Jonathan Moor]

I do, and I find that disappointing. I think one of the things that we have learned here is that we do need greater oversight of procurement and task authorizations in the organization. That is why we have developed a procurement improvement plan.

I think, going back to 2020, the procurement team was relatively small. We have now enhanced the procurement team to act as an assurance provider as well as a contract authority for the contracts that we do.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

To be clear, though, Mr. Moor, didn't Botler raise serious concerns and allegations regarding the relationship between GC Strategies and the CBSA in 2021?

[Jonathan Moor]

My understanding is that Botler, at the time, raised concerns with ISTB, the information, science and technology branch, around the payments. They were making complaints that they had not been paid by Dalian and Coradix. It wasn't until, I think, November 2022 that they raised allegations. Those went straight to the president, and the president passed those to internal affairs, which then subsequently passed them to the RCMP.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

But this committee's investigation didn't start until after that, so the CBSA had received the concerns from Botler prior to this committee's beginning its work on ArriveCAN. Is that correct?

[Jonathan Moor]

I can't remember precisely the dates, but I was made aware of the allegations by the president when she received them in, I think, November 2022, and then they were passed to internal affairs.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I guess the surprising part of your statement that no one had raised red flags about GC Strategies is the fact that if you read the Botler investigation report that they provided to the CBSA, it's alarming. The communications and the relationships that are documented in that report—and, admittedly, not all of these have been proven—point to major misconduct at the CBSA, and yet it's taken this committee's work to get to this point, such that the RCMP is now looking into it and there are something like 12 different investigations into how the CBSA conducts procurement.

I'm just wondering why the CBSA didn't take Botler's red flags more seriously back when they raised them.

[Jonathan Moor]

So—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Moor, I'm sorry, but we're quite a bit past our time. Perhaps you can provide that in writing.

[Jonathan Moor]

Well, perhaps—

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

[Jonathan Moor]

If I may say so, Chair, I have not seen the Botler report. It's not been provided to me.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks very much.

Mr. Berthold, go ahead.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Moor, I want to go back to the letter, because I think it's an important part of the whole issue surrounding the ArriveCAN app.

Your letter to Ms. Arianne Reza about the national security exception wasn't dated.

Can you tell us the date when that letter was written?