Government Operations Committee on March 28th, 2024

[Blaine Higgs]

No. What we have control over is a reactionary process to what we're seeing across the country in terms of increased costs. That was my point in relation to having a policy that incurs a counterpolicy to offset a poor policy. That's the issue.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

I'm sorry. I have to keep going.

Premier Higgs, when you decided to drop the New Brunswick carbon pricing system, you said at the time, during your press conference, “We know that recently and especially over the last few months, New Brunswickers have been feeling the impact of inflation and are struggling with the higher prices on everything from food to fuel. By changing our approach, we can help New Brunswickers get money back into their pockets in the form of a quarterly rebate cheque from the federal government.”

I happen to agree with you, Premier, but I see that you've recently changed your stance on this, so is it—

[Blaine Higgs]

No, I haven't changed my stance.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

—the case that you're more interested in playing politics than actually looking after affordability for New Brunswickers and tackling climate change?

[Blaine Higgs]

On the contrary, I think playing politics is what I've witnessed here in the last half-hour.

The point of the issue on the carbon tax is saying that if we adopt the backstop, then people will get a cheque. Is that cheque offsetting the real costs they have? No, it's not.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Can you table that information to show us the calculations?

[Blaine Higgs]

With the calculation going right through to groceries, to the cost of commodities.... It's more than fuel.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Could you share that information with us?

[Blaine Higgs]

Yes, I think there's a recent study, perhaps by the Fraser Institute, showing the impact of the carbon tax. I don't know what the Bank of Canada has said recently, but there are many studies showing that. I'm sure there is other relevant data.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Sir, how much is the average rebate for a New Brunswicker, including the 20% rural top-up?

[Blaine Higgs]

It's around $200 quarterly, I think, in that range. It's about $700 a year, or $736 a year.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

You have a Twitter post here about your appearance today. You mentioned participating in the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates to relay your concerns and “put a stop to this tax grab once and for all.”

Sir, are you familiar with the Greenhouse Gas Pollution Pricing Act?

[Blaine Higgs]

Somewhat, but maybe not as familiar as you are at this stage.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Section 2.2 of the 2019 annual report on the act is titled “Return of Pollution Pricing Fuel Charge Proceeds to Jurisdictions”. It breaks down the rebate process: 90% of “the fuel charge proceeds are returned directly to individuals and families” through the Canada carbon rebate, and the “remainder of the fuel charge proceeds are returned through federal programming to support schools, hospitals, small and medium-sized businesses, colleges and universities, municipalities”.

Which of the projects would you not like to see supported? There are energy retrofits for indigenous communities' infrastructure, and we have schools that are bringing down their pollution in general and they're actually saving money on their bills. Would you like to see these programs cancelled, along with the rebates?

[Blaine Higgs]

I think we were providing supports through a lot of initiatives to these different communities prior to a carbon tax ever coming in. I don't think that creating more hurt for people in order to provide more federal money to distribute as they would see fit is a solution. I don't think that just charging people more so the federal government can have more say in where the money is distributed is a policy.... You should not hurt one group in order to distribute to another.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Premier, this article says, “The New Brunswick government passed legislation in 2022 to allow oil companies to pass clean fuel charges onto consumers and instructed the Energy and Utilities Board to determine what those [hypothetical] costs might be.” An independent analysis determined that here in New Brunswick we are “compensating companies for costs that do not exist”, overcharging New Brunswickers at the pump anywhere from 5.6¢ to eight cents a litre.

How much of this is rebated back to New Brunswickers?

[Blaine Higgs]

Mrs. Atwin, are you familiar with the fact that we have regulated pricing here in New Brunswick, in Nova Scotia, in Newfoundland and in P.E.I.?

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

It's actually my questioning time, so I'd like you to answer the question I asked.

[Blaine Higgs]

Let's put all the facts on the table, because every one of those provinces under—

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Why is it okay to give money to oil and gas companies and not to New Brunswickers?

[Blaine Higgs]

Let me answer your question. Every one of those provinces raised its prices when the clean fuel standard came into play—every one of them—and our price is the cheapest in Atlantic Canada. Why did they do that?

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

But that money is not rebated back to New Brunswickers.

[Blaine Higgs]

I'll tell you why they did that. It's because the regulated pricing formula includes regulated changes to industry that are brought down by government. That's why they did that. Our change was only to reflect the same logic that other regulated pricing has. Now, we could argue whether regulated pricing makes sense or doesn't make sense.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Yet we see more expensive gas in New Brunswick than in the rest of the country.

[Blaine Higgs]

No. I'm telling you that the same thing was raised in the other three provinces. Maybe you missed that, because it seems to have not been talked about much. Regulated pricing accounts for a complete addition of all the incurred costs in order to arrive at the retail price.