Government Operations Committee on April 8th, 2024

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you.

I'll go to the moratorium that was put in place back in 1994 for rural and remote postal services.

Did you have a clear definition of what “rural” meant in 1994?

[Michael Yee, Vice-President, Retail and Financial Services, Canada Post Corporation]

I believe, as my colleague outlined, that the moratorium is a core part of the Canadian Postal Service Charter, which outlines our expectations around universal service. It also mandates that we maintain “convenient access to postal services”. We run the largest national network of post offices, with 98% of Canadians—

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

I appreciate that. All I'm asking is whether you had a definition for “rural and remote area” in 1994.

[Michael Yee]

As we understand it, the 1994 moratorium named 4,000 post offices in communities. It's on a named basis.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Then there was no definition as it relates to, for example, amount of service or size of population. It was just naming them.

[Michael Yee]

From a service perspective, the service we have to provide in all communities is defined within the service charter, as we mentioned, but who the moratorium applies to is on a named basis.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

How are those postal locations determined to be rural without any formal guidance?

[Michael Yee]

I wasn't around in 1994 to speak about how specific communities were taken.... I can get back to the member with a better answer from our team.

What we abide by right now, with regard to our obligations under the service charter—which we fully respect—is based on the names within the moratorium.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Just to let you know, Richmond Hill and also Brampton were named as rural postal services. I have one of the biggest processing centres, Richmond Hill, in Canada—at least in Ontario—in my riding. Do you consider Richmond Hill as a rural area that needs to be protected?

I'm not saying we should move it. I'm just saying that the definition is not there, so the guidelines are not there. How are we going to protect the areas if we don't even know what the definition is?

[Michael Yee]

Having grown up in north Toronto, I also recognize that Richmond Hill is a very urbanized part of the country, and frankly, the country has changed a lot, both in delivery and urbanization, since 1994.

The fact remains that with regard to the moratorium, we adhere to it, given that it's part of our service charter. We commit to maintaining the post office service in all named communities within the confines of the service charter, and “service” is defined within that service charter.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Does the fact that Richmond Hill now isn't rural impact another real rural area's services?

[Michael Yee]

I'm not sure I fully understand the question. Can you elaborate?

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

If Richmond Hill is 200,000-plus residents and is considered rural, what about services for somewhere that has only 5,000 residents?

[Michael Yee]

I will distinguish “service” in two regards.

One is delivery services, which my colleague can speak to on the operations side.

With regard to the moratorium, which focuses specifically on whether post offices in these named communities can be converted or closed, the Richmond Hill post office, if it's on the moratorium, cannot be closed or converted. It's the same for the Head of Jeddore, Nova Scotia, or other rural communities.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you, sir. That is our time.

Mrs. Vignola, go ahead, please.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Brisson and Mr. Yee, thank you for being with us today.

I want to raise a few points about rural areas.

I had the great pleasure of growing up in Fermont, on the North Shore, which didn't have a road until 1984. I remember a few very exciting periods when parcels arrived very late.

That said, it's also the reality of places like Kuujjuaq, Sheldrake and Lourdes-de-Blanc-Sablon. I don't know whether you've ever gone there, but everything arrives by air or by boat, and there's only a very short window when boats can reach Kuujjuaq. Postal services are so inadequate that people are starting to think about setting up their own dogsled delivery service. That gives you an idea of what it's like.

Whether it's medication, clothes or simple things like pens, everything comes by post. Despite repeated calls by the public and elected officials, the situation isn't improving. We see the same thing on the Magdalen Islands.

What solutions has Canada Post considered to date to resolve the problems experienced by people living in very remote and very isolated areas? I'm not including Fermont in that list, since its residents are lucky to have had a road since 1984.

[Alexandre Brisson]

Thank you for the question. My parents and I are from the Lower St. Lawrence, so I know the area somewhat.

Without a doubt, it's not always easy to provide services to everyone in a country as vast as ours. It's true for the Lower St. Lawrence, the North Shore and many other regions in Canada. It's something I have personally witnessed at Canada Post in the past four years. We have such a vast but very intricate network, and behind it are the operations teams which, every day, manage each of the connections that we have—

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Brisson. Since my time is limited, I'd like to come back to the question. Perhaps I'll rephrase it.

[Alexandre Brisson]

Yes, of course.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Among the solutions being considered, you're exploring the possible use of drones to make deliveries. Is that option being considered for Kuujjuaq, Kawawachikamach, Lourdes-de-Blanc-Sablon and other such areas?

[Alexandre Brisson]

As you know, we deliver parcels across Canada in all sorts of ways, such as by ferry, by train and by air.

Naturally, we're keeping abreast of technology. You mentioned drones. We conducted tests, but we are certainly not ready to use drones to make deliveries. However, we're watching what is happening in the market. Some companies similar to us in some respects, such as Royal Mail, in the U.K., which has to service a number of tiny islands, is also testing the use of drones to make deliveries. We're watching closely.

Clearly, we're not ready yet to provide that kind of service across the country. That said, we'll continue to retain all the options that will allow us to continue to serve the public.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

One of the solutions that was proposed for the Lower North Shore was identifying urgent parcels in a very distinctive way, for example, parcels containing medication for diabetes or epilepsy. Despite that proposal, it's clear that some parcels aren't reaching their destination or aren't reaching it in time. However, for people with epilepsy or diabetes, it's a matter of life or death.

What do we need to do to ensure that people get their parcels on time? It's true that this is a vast country, but we're talking about urgent situations where peoples' lives might be in danger.

Furthermore, these situations mean that the population in some areas is in decline, thereby putting those regions at a huge disadvantage.

[Alexandre Brisson]

It's true, and I want to say that I understand how important the parcels we deliver are. There's no doubt about it. We know that we're an extremely important link.

As I said, our plan is quite well established. That said, as you know, these regions are dealing with all sorts of events, including weather conditions, heat, cold, snow and everything.

The teams work hard every day to improve services and ensure a link that is as reliable as possible in all regions of the country, including the ones you mentioned.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much.

There are high and low temperatures and storms everywhere. This needs to be taken into consideration. It's Canada, not Florida.

It's been brought to my attention that, in Kuujjuaq, there's a waiting list to get a post office box. Indeed, some twenty people aren't able to get a post office box, which means that some people have to share a post office box. You can imagine the privacy implications. Furthermore, francophones in Kuujjuaq can't get services in their language.

What are some solutions to that?

[Alexandre Brisson]

Personally, I'm unable to answer that question directly or give you more details on that specific situation. However, I will forward your question to our team, which will give you a clear answer in writing with as many details as possible on that specific case, if that's acceptable to the committee.