Evidence of meeting #117 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was communities.
A video is available from Parliament.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
Are we all clear on that?
That's perfect. I don't think we need a vote, so we're done, and you're out of time as well.
(Motion agreed to)
12:05 p.m.
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to our witnesses.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
We'll finish up with our last two members.
We have Mr. Genuis and then Mr. Sousa.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
Mr. Chair, I believe I'll be taking that round.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
I know that in the last meeting we held with individuals from Canada Post and PSPC, we heard that, despite the moratorium on closing rural post offices, over 600 post offices have been closed, and we've talked about that again here today. We've heard that's 600 over the last 30 years, so that would be about 20 post offices a year.
Do you have a yearly breakdown of the post office closures? Can you tell us if that has accelerated in the last couple of decades?
12:05 p.m.
National President, Canadian Postmasters and Assistants Association
I would be interested to hear the fallout from that motion that was just put forward and to see those numbers, because the numbers I'm looking at indicate that, between 1994 and 2007, there were 63 post offices closed, and, between 2007 and 2023, we have 321 post offices noted. I would be interested to hear that list of the 600 that was put forward in that earlier motion.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
What I'm hearing from you is you don't know where that number came from.
12:05 p.m.
National President, Canadian Postmasters and Assistants Association
I would be very curious to see the list that Canada Post would produce to send that. I imagine that's where it was coming from.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
Okay, thank you.
Obviously, it sounds like that number has accelerated in the past 17 years to reach the number 600.
In your opening statement, Ms. Simpson, you outlined the critical role that post offices play in rural communities. Again, at the meeting where Canada Post presented, we heard from them that they have developed a long-term strategy and a transformation plan that they believe is not dictated by their financial position, whether they're running a deficit or not.
I'm wondering if you can tell us if you're aware of this long-term strategy and transformational plan and if either your association, Mr. Jones, or the union has been consulted on it or has provided any kind of input.
12:05 p.m.
National President, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
In our collective agreements, we have consultation language. As well, we have what's called an appendix T, which talks about expansion of services, such as financial services, at Canada Post.
As you heard my colleague, Dwayne, say very clearly, a lot of the time, consultations start after an idea has been done by Canada Post. We need to have true consultation at the beginning of the process because nobody knows the workflow and the work that we do better than postal workers, postmasters, postmistresses and assistants.
We feel that the consultation process has to be true, transparent and clear with the unions at the beginning, not when ideas have already been done and we're “voluntold” what's going to happen.
We do have visions. Our “Delivering Community Power” campaign has allowed Canada Post to see how we see expansion of services happening, and not leave anybody behind. As well, it's to ensure Canada Post remains financially sustainable because taxpayer dollars do not pay for postal workers' salaries.
Again, we are taxpayers within the communities.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
Thank you.
I know you're aware that Canada Post has been running significant deficits for a number of years. Again, they stated that they are trying to refocus on their core business. They have actually sold off two profitable companies as a step toward that.
Is it all concerning to either of you that Canada Post, which is actually struggling with deficits, sold off profitable companies that would have brought in revenue that may have helped subsidize their core business and the work your members do?
12:05 p.m.
National President, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
My members were not represented at those two companies; they are represented at Canada Post.
For us, any time Canada Post makes a decision that is not seen to be financially the best, it's their decision. Again, we as postal workers want to expand services at Canada Post for the jobs that our members do. That's why it's important for us to push and have the “Delivering Community Power” campaign.
In its own polls, the government showed that the public wants an expansion of services at Canada Post. Even the public is fully in support of expansion of services at Canada Post.
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
April 15th, 2024 / 12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you for appearing before us.
In 2003, Canada Post agreed to recognize rural route contractors as employees, represented by CUPW. They're known as rural and suburban mail carriers. In 2005, CPAA signed a memorandum of agreement with CUPW that a bargaining unit of the rural and suburban mail carriers was appropriate. CUPW agreed to respect the separate bargaining rights of CPAA.
As you're well aware, there's no definition for “rural” in the rural moratorium.
Could you please provide the respective definitions for rural and suburban mail carriers?
12:10 p.m.
National President, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
To deliver in a rural area—not what is considered an urban area—that's the outskirts of many cities. For example, an urban area would be a city like Toronto or Montreal and the major, big cities. Rural areas are the smaller communities on the outskirts of the big urban areas.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
I know that CUPW first negotiated protections for the urban public network in 1992 because of the Conservatives' plan in the late 1980s to privatize the entire retail network and introduce more private postal outlets. There were concerns.
Could you highlight any similarities between the urban collective agreement and the rural moratorium?
12:10 p.m.
National President, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
Could you repeat your question?
I'm sorry.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
What similarities exist between the collective agreements for urban and rural...and the moratorium?
Could you elaborate on why no rural network protections were negotiated at that same time?
12:10 p.m.
National President, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
For us, we feel they do the exact same work. We're in bargaining right now to try to get one collective agreement because we feel that both bargaining units do the exact same work.
For us, the difference is that Canada Post, even though RSMCs are employees, is still making these members provide their own vehicles and pay for their own gas. We were able to eliminate that in the urban collective agreement years ago.
We want it eliminated in this round of bargaining for the RSMCs as well because there is no need for them to be providing their own vehicles, paying for their own gas and providing their own relief workers. Many couldn't even go to their families' funerals or events because they had to provide their own relief people.
For us, if you're an employee of a company, all the tools to do your job should be provided by the company.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
I'm getting to this next question as a result of these two and that is considering Canada Post's current financial situation.
What do you feel are the key priorities for ensuring that Canada Post is financially stable and can provide quality service to all Canadians regardless of their postal code?
12:10 p.m.
National President, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
What was the last word you said?
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
You have this disparity. You have these regional differences. You have this tremendous amount of pressure on Canada Post to get through these financial concerns. We want and need to have national distribution, but we have conflicting matters. We have another world out there at our heels.
What do we do to provide that quality service?
What are your recommendations, given these circumstances?
Dwayne.
12:10 p.m.
National President, Canadian Postmasters and Assistants Association
Canada Post is looking at.... If you look at Manitoulin Island and Fort Qu'Appelle, Saskatchewan, you'll see that it's looked at enhancing the services through what it's calling “hubs” in order to see what would help drive extra revenue into that local post office and community.
That would be one thing I would highly recommend: that it look at each community individually when it's looking at the overall approach. You can have similarities, but the cookie-cutter approach is not necessarily going to work with every community. It has to be flexible enough to pivot to be able to adapt that to each.