Government Operations Committee on April 15th, 2024

[Dwayne Jones]

I can't speak to letter carriers, but I can speak to some of the rural communities that were being relocated because of fires or evacuation orders that were brought in.

Our members were going above and beyond to forward mail to other local points where people could pick it up, so that they could maintain a sense of normalcy during those times.

We were disappointed to hear that employees in some of those locations were being asked to use their personal leave in situations where they were being evacuated out of an area. We found it very disheartening that they were being pressured into doing that.

[Jan Simpson]

We have seen, among the many letter carriers who deliver the mail in the wintertime with the thaws and freezes, many slips, trips and falls, and other health and safety issues. Canada Post was asking these workers to suppress these injuries, to self-accommodate and to not go through the proper channels. We know that if we are injured today, it could lead to a long-term injury later on, but workers are afraid to report the injuries they have suffered.

With regard to delivering throughout the pandemic, as well as through the smoke, we need to provide proper health and safety equipment for the workers. If it's not safe to go out, Canada Post has the ability to not require workers to go out to deliver the mail on those days.

You also mentioned gas. Many rural and suburban mail carriers, the majority of whom are women, provide their own vehicles. We want Canada Post, through our “Delivering Community Power” campaign, to provide electric or hybrid vehicles to help eliminate some of the carbon in the environment. The campaign allows Canada Post to transform its fleet with more electric vehicles, and install electric charging stations to encourage customers to come to a retail postal counter, plug their vehicles in there and do their shopping.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you very much. I believe I only have 30 seconds left for my question, so it's a quick one.

The analysis we received says that overall on-time service performance for domestic letter mail delivery was 93%, which was an improvement of about 2% over the previous year.

What can you attribute that excellent performance to?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

You have five seconds.

[Jan Simpson]

Postal workers love their jobs, and they love the Canadian public.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Perfect. Thanks, Ms. Simpson.

Mrs. Vignola, please go ahead.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Simpson and Mr. Jones, every five years, Canada Post must review the Canadian Postal Service Charter, which should have been done in 2023. We are told that it has been in the works for a year, but that there will not be any major changes because the charter is working well. However, when I look at what is happening on the ground, I cannot believe anyone thinks it's working all that well. When I think of the ideas that the unions have been bringing forward for at least five years, specifically to improve and diversify services, I don't understand how a 2009 charter that simply gets renewed can still be considered adequate.

Are the unions involved in reviewing and analyzing the Canadian Postal Service Charter, or are you informed once it's done?

[Dwayne Jones]

Many times, we're being informed, it takes the latter.

I will draw from the numbers in the 2016 executive summary that was presented. On the services that are owned and operated as public services, 88% of Canadians and 83% of businesses in rural communities believe that the mail is highly important and that Canada will always need a postal service.

We know the demand is there. It's a matter of trying to make it fit within those communities. I'll speak on behalf of CPAA. In rural areas, they don't have a lot of additional providers to contend with; sometimes they're the only provider in that area. If it's a bedroom community near an urban centre to which people have to travel, then we should possibly be looking at the hours that the post office is operating. Maybe operating on a Saturday, when people can pick up their parcels, would make it convenient for them, or possibly it should be open late one day during the week or hours should be extended.

There are solutions. We just need all parties to be open to hearing them.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

You should also be more involved in the work surrounding the charter. That's my understanding.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Give a quick answer only, if you have one.

[Dwayne Jones]

We would welcome all involvement, and early involvement is the key.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks very much.

Mr. Bachrach, please go ahead, sir.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Jones, earlier you mentioned the stipend that is paid essentially to cover rent for these rural post offices. You mentioned $1,357 per year. Could you clarify what the number meant?

[Dwayne Jones]

That's correct. That would be for a group 1 post office, and it's $1,357 per year. In order to request an increase to that, they have to supply all the revenue and expenses.

What I referred to earlier as well was the survey we're doing. We've sent out approximately 300 surveys to group postmasters. We don't have all the responses back, but the numbers right now are indicating that they're operating at a deficit of about $32,000 a month. This is from those surveys we sent out.

Our members are paying out of pocket in order for the post office to be maintained. That's something we are pushing with Canada Post, because nobody should have to pay to go to work.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Absolutely. It reminds me of schoolteachers having to pay for school supplies for their students out of their own pocket. I think everyone would agree that this is entirely unacceptable.

Mr. Jones, I have one more question and then I'm going to move a motion. We've been trying to get some information on the wages for these rural postmasters. I understand that you're in collective bargaining right now, but looking at previous years, let's say a year or two ago, what was the starting hourly wage for a group 1 postmaster in a rural community?

[Dwayne Jones]

A group 1 postmaster being paid at level 1 in January 2019 would have started at $17.04 per hour.

Somebody at the same level in January 2023 would receive $18.44.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

That's absolutely incredible. Thanks for providing those numbers, Mr. Jones.

Mr. Chair, with that, I would like to move the motion that I put on notice: “That the committee order the Department of Public Works and Government Services to produce a complete list of all...”.

I'm hoping I can modify the words on the fly. I'm sure, Mr. Chair, you will correct me if I'm wrong in that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Yes.

You won't table the motion that you had on notice; you can maybe just read the new one. It has a slight change, I understand.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I understand that other members have asked for another change as well, so I'm going to try my best to get through this in one go.

That the committee order Canada Post or Public Services and Procurement Canada to produce a complete list of the 600 rural post offices that have been closed since the 1994 moratorium, with the location, dates of closure, stated reason for closure, and that, no later than Friday, April 26, 2024.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks.

It seems to be just adding the request for information for the reason of the closure from the one you had originally—

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

There was one other small change there, Mr. Chair, and that was to indicate that it could be either Canada Post or PSPC that could provide the information. The other tiny change was that I noted that we used the two names of the department interchangeably, the old name being Public Works and the new name being Public Services. I thought it would be best to reflect the current name of the department.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

It will always be Public Works to me, Mr. Bachrach.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I know.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I understand that we generally have consensus.

Ms. Sousa, do you wish to address that?

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Yes, we have consensus to include both.