Government Operations Committee on April 15th, 2024

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Thank you.

The same section mentions that compensation restrictions due to government policy are making it increasingly difficult to attract and retain top talent.

Mr. Jones, could you comment on that or elaborate further and provide us with some advice or some recommendations to potentially avoid some of these pitfalls?

[Dwayne Jones]

With Canada Post, years ago the starting salary was considerably more than that of other jobs or opportunities they might find within their community. We find that's not the case nowadays.

There have been some slight increases over the years, but they have not kept up if you consider that the cost of living has increased. We look at other organizations within the community that start at higher salaries to try to draw that talent in.

I think we need to seriously look at the starting wages for employees as well as at maintaining benefits. Canadians are seeking those, and those are important to them. In many of our communities, they have to travel to get medical services, so to have benefits to somewhat offset some of that expense is important.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Thank you.

Would Ms. Simpson have anything to add to that question?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Go ahead, please, just briefly. You have 20 seconds.

[Jan Simpson]

We have to negotiate a living wage for everybody and good, sustainable jobs, which Canada Post had and still needs to have. We're in bargaining. We're bargaining for your public post office and for our jobs to ensure that the next generation will have good, unionized jobs.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks very much.

Ms. Vignola, go ahead, please.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for being here.

The Canadian Union of Postal Workers, or CUPW for short, is working to find new ways to ensure the financial viability of Canada Post without closing post offices or cutting jobs, while at the same time providing new services.

You mentioned a number of realities in remote areas. I experienced these realities back when I was young, since I lived in Fermont at a time when there were no roads. It was quite something, having all our parcels delivered by plane or, sometimes, by train. What solutions has the union brought to the table so far to ensure that medications and school supplies reach remote or even isolated areas? In those communities, everything arrives by mail.

[Jan Simpson]

Thank you for your question.

For CUPW, we know that many times we're the only ones in a community who actually come to the door, so it's very important for us to maintain our last-mile delivery. As I mentioned in my intervention earlier, many of the private courier companies use us to deliver for the last mile in the communities you spoke of. I know that in the province of Quebec there was a gentleman who actually used a boat as well as a helicopter to deliver the mail. It's very important for us as postal workers to ensure that Canada Post brings back, for those who lost it, door-to-door delivery, and to ensure that those who have it keep it as well. That means ensuring we deliver parcels to the door along with the other products people require.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

That is what you want, and that is also what the public wants. What I was asking you is what potential solutions there are to provide that service. In some areas, they are even thinking of setting up a dogsled-based service for last-mile mail delivery, as was the case more than a hundred years ago.

How do we ensure that medications, school supplies and clothing get to these locations within a reasonable time frame, which is not necessarily the case at the moment? What solutions are you proposing?

[Jan Simpson]

Thank you for the question.

We know postal workers are not paid by any tax dollars, but postal workers are taxpayers. If you eliminate jobs, you're going to eliminate money coming into the communities to help with the infrastructure to build roads and to help ensure that there's delivery to the front door of the Canadian public.

Also, the service charter mandates innovation in expansion of services to meet people's changing needs. We are pushing Canada Post to do expansion of services to ensure that nobody is left behind.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you.

We were told about a potential project or a study that was under way to use drones to deliver mail in remote or even isolated areas. Is that something the union is looking at? What would that mean for the union, for example, in terms of training and hiring employees?

[Jan Simpson]

Any time a technology happens at any company, especially at CUPW with Canada Post, we have what's called “consultation and tech chains”. It's very important that our postal workers are included in any decisions made to do that kind of work to ensure that postal workers' health and safety is prioritized with the delivery by drones, but we also know that drones and automation do not pay money or pay taxes back into the community; therefore, for us it's important to keep good, unionized jobs in place but also have technology that ensures that workers are not left behind and that nobody's injured.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you.

When a post office closes, is the union consulted? I would ask you for a brief answer.

[Jan Simpson]

We need to have meaningful consultations, because a lot of times decisions are made, and then we're advised. Meaningful consultation is what is needed, and we can offer ideas to help expand services at those post offices to avoid closures.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

What I am asking is whether you meet with them. I'm not asking you about needs. I'm asking you to tell me whether the union is automatically consulted before a post office closure is announced.

[Jan Simpson]

We're not always consulted at the beginning of the process, but we consult at different parts of the process. Whenever they consult us at the beginning of the process, we are able to work together and find a solution where postal services are not lost in remote areas.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

My next question is a yes or no question. Do you have a list of the 600 post offices that have been closed since the moratorium was put in place?

[Jan Simpson]

I could get back to you and provide you with the list we have. I don't know if we have an accurate list at this time, but we definitely would be able to provide that.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Bachrach, please go ahead, sir.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to both of our witnesses.

This is an issue that is very much on the minds of people in communities in northwest B.C. Mr. Jones noted Bella Coola that is, of course, in the beautiful riding that I represent and relies heavily on rural post office service. Right across the northwest of British Columbia, small post offices are a lifeline for people.

I'm here today in the village of Daajing Giids on Haida Gwaii, with another rural post office. I'm using their council chambers this morning for this meeting.

Thinking about the service that both CUPW employees and rural postmasters provide and how we sustain those over time, I was really quite shocked at our last meeting to learn that 600 post offices have closed across Canada since the 1994 moratorium was put in place.

Perhaps I'll start my questioning with a question to Mr. Jones and ask him if he could lay out the mechanism by which Canada Post allows post offices to close in the face of the moratorium. How is this allowed to take place? What are the steps that we see occur? I think there are some trends that we see across rural Canada when we see communities go from having a proper rural post office, a Canada Post post office, to a mailbox in the side of the road.

Mr. Jones, could you talk a little bit about what we're seeing in terms of that erosion of service?

[Dwayne Jones]

Many times, Canada Post will reach out through its community outreach program into the community. When it's speaking with representatives in the community, it will talk about postal service, but will fail to mention maintaining the same level of service.

I'll give an example. Being able to go into a post office, and receiving all the services and products available through that local post office, isn't the same as having to drive 70 kilometres to pick up a parcel, and perhaps stop at a local retail outlet to purchase stamps. It's not the same service.

When it comes to its community outreach, it'll speak about postal service, but will fail to mention maintaining the same level of service it has provided for years. With that comes a notification to the association. If it has gotten to the point where it's a temporary closure, Canada Post would normally reach out to identify a temporary closure.

We would, of course, like to have consultation. As my friend and colleague has mentioned, meaningful consultation is the key phrase there, because many times, when we're bringing supporting information into that meeting, it is falling on deaf ears. It's important that Canada Post hears that in order to maintain that post office. It may at times have to look at another suitable premise that can operate at a lower expense. If that's the case, and if it's a suitable premise, it would have to relocate or look at readjusting that leasing. Maybe it would have to increase the leasing allowance that's identified under appendix “I” in our collective agreement.

Usually, Canada Post would reach out to the community. We would want to make sure the community receives full disclosure on all levels of service within a post office. That's something I would want to emphasize, because, again, just talking about a postal service isn't talking about all levels of service.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

We see communities go from having a Canada Post post office to having a contracted-out franchise situation with a local business.

Do we ever see the opposite occur? Do we see services that have been contracted out brought back in-house, or is it largely a one-way street?

[Dwayne Jones]

Many times, when the local franchise decides to close, that's the nail in the coffin for the postal outlet in that community, sadly. That federal presence is lost in that community. Just because it's opened in a retail postal outlet doesn't mean it's going to maintain a post office in that community for years to come. It's contingent on the owner-operator of that local retail outlet.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Canada Post often struggles when it loses a postmaster in a rural community. For example, in those tragic situations where there is a death of a postmaster, or a fire, Canada Post seems to struggle to recruit new rural postmasters.

What are the main reasons Canada Post struggles to recruit new postmasters in small communities?