Government Operations Committee on May 8th, 2024

[The Clerk]

Then we'll need to suspend.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

It's going to take a while to get it in English and French. How about if we just read it?

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

No. We'd like to see it, actually, Mr. Chair, so if we can just wait until we get that translated and circulated, that would be great.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Will Mr. Kusmierczyk be reading the French version for us, since he'd like to see it?

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

I just kindly ask that it be circulated. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

It will be about three minutes, so we'll suspend for three minutes, but please do not leave the room. We want to get to this.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I have a point of order, Chair. A member does not have a right to demand a suspension, and—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

It's a request, and I grant the request. We'll put it in French. We'll get it out to everyone and hopefully we can put this to bed.

We're suspended for about three minutes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We are back.

Everyone has a copy in both languages.

Are we ready to move forward and vote on this?

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Who is on the speaking list on this issue?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

No one right now. That's why I'm hoping we can—

Go ahead, Mr. Kusmierczyk.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

I'm sorry. Is it me or Charles? Who's next?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

It's you, now that we've put this forward. I had Mr. Sousa, but on the subamendment.

However, I can go to Mr. Sousa first. Mr. Kusmierczyk, is that fine?

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

That's fine. I'm sorry. I thought he was on the list first. I don't want to step on anyone's toes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We have Mr. Sousa and then Mr. Kusmierczyk.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In relation to the original motion, the amendments to the motion thereafter, and the other amendments that are coming through, given what we're reading, it's evident that members around this committee now are all from HESA, or a good number of them are. It raises the question made by Madame Vignola as to why HESA is not ordering the documents as being proposed to be available to them, recognizing that much of the jurisdiction and the documentation lie with the provincial governments that are in question. Notwithstanding, I appreciate the discussion and the severity of the matter at hand.

This is a very serious issue. It affects many lives, many Canadians, and what has taken place in respect to the crisis is horrendous. We can't make light of it, and I don't want that to be the case here. That's why I find it rather frustrating that here at OGGO we have so many things that we're dealing with, and what HESA is doing is trying to address the matter properly.

I appreciate the subamendments that have been put forward by the NDP and I appreciate the words by the Bloc, because we all recognize the dilemma. However, part of the frustration that I'm finding us in right now is a deliberation over this matter, which belongs to health, notwithstanding the arguments made on contract procurements. We gather and we understand the need to review those contracts if in fact they exist federally relative to what's being proposed with the acquisition of the supplies.

However, having said that, we are now putting forward a motion that really is in relation to HESA. Just the very nature of the way we're proposing this motion recognizes that this is a matter for the health committee. We're now putting into our motion this notion that we will make the documents available to HESA. Well, don't bother. Just ask HESA to do the deal. Just go forward and request what you need, recognizing the tremendous amount of work that they have put forward.

The overdose crisis, as I've said, is one of the most serious and unprecedented public health threats in Canada's recent history. It's driven by the illegal drug supply, which is unpredictable, rapidly changing and growing increasingly toxic. The overdose crisis is tragic, and it's having devastating impacts on individuals, friends and families across the country, leaving no community left untouched.

We have a number of members in all the communities that I know who are concerned about those areas where those most in need can be treated and helped. It's not just a matter of health. It's a matter of stopping crime, reducing health consequences and providing safe injections and needles as opposed to people finding themselves in worse predicaments.

I think the national data was just produced last week on opioid and stimulant-related harms, and it shows that the number of opioid-related deaths in Canada certainly remains high. On average, 22 people are dying every day. There are approximately 80 opioid-related poisoning emergency department visits per day. Additionally, from January to September 2023, there were 33,000 emergency medical service responses for suspected opioid-related overdoses. The matter has been prevalent. Regardless of legal supply or illegal supply, we have a crisis, and we need to find ways to treat those individuals and bring them forward to enable them to be safe in their requirement for addiction relief.

The rapidly changing and volatile illegal drug supply is a key driver behind this increase in deaths, in hospitalizations, in EMS responses and emergency department visits. Of all the accidental apparent opioid toxicity deaths in 2023, from January to September, 82% involved fentanyl, and this percentage has increased by 44% since 2016, when national surveillance began. A number of newer substances and contaminants, such as exlazine, are more frequently found now in the illegal drug market. There's an illegal component to all this.

That's why enabling us to have a transparent manner to enable individuals who are fighting addiction to come forward for relief is essential. I think there's an ideological argument that's being put forward by the opposition to suggest that no supply should be made available to anybody. Not providing that only exacerbates the illegal activity.

That not only exacerbates the illegal activity of supply but then allows illegal and criminal activity to go forward.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Sousa, we have a point of order.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

I appreciate the engagement from Mr. Sousa on this issue.

These would all be very good conversations to have in terms of the policy piece at HESA. If he were to ever want to sub in at HESA, I would love to hear him have those conversations; however, this is not in relation to the contract production motion that is at hand, and so I would just ask about relevance.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you, Mrs. Goodridge.

We do allow, obviously, wide latitude. Could we come back to the amendment, the married amendment between Mr. Bachrach and Mrs. Goodridge, please?

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

I believe it's very relevant. Certainly when the motion was brought forward and when the amendments were brought forward, a number of opportunities were given to those individuals to express their concerns and to share why we're talking about it.

I'm trying to reaffirm that we need to talk about it in the appropriate committee. What's happening here is an abuse of our privileges in this committee to do other work that's important, as much as this is important. It should not be part of this committee. We should be dealing with it where it appropriately belongs.

I'm going to proceed as follows.

“The situation”, as I made reference to, “is very heartbreaking, and we will continue to use every tool at our disposal to find solutions to tackle the overdose crisis and save lives.”

HESA is listening to Canadians. They include frontline workers, people who use drugs and their families. They're talking to communities and indigenous partners. All orders of government are engaged, including the jurisdictional authorities where they lie. It's stated that:

Each story and community is unique, and it is clear that no single intervention will turn the tide. Experts have repeatedly told us that only a holistic, comprehensive spectrum of supports will achieve [the solutions or the outcomes] that we all want to see achieved: deaths averted and wellness and health restored.

That's ultimately our goal. That's ultimately what we're trying to achieve. It's not about doing YouTube hits. It's not about going out there asking for individuals to fundraise on behalf of the lives of individuals who are being impacted. It's disrespectful and disgraceful to be using these committees for members to foster their own political agenda and fundraising activities. The Government of Canada, I believe, and all of us around this committee have a responsibility.

It's stated that:

[We've] taken a range of actions to address the overdose crisis. Guided by recently renewed Canadian Drugs and Substances Strategy, we have put compassion and dignity [at the front] and at the centre of our approach. Canada's model puts in place a comprehensive and evidence-based continuum of supports, including drug prevention initiatives to educate Canadians on the risks of abuse of substances before substance use begins.

It's all based on evidence. It's all based on need, and on a couple of other—

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Excuse me, Mr. Sousa.

Go ahead, Mrs. Goodridge.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

Again, I understand the latitude given at committees, but this is straying very far from the amendment at hand. It has become very evident that Mr. Sousa would rather filibuster than have a vote.

I'm just imploring all members that if they don't like this amendment, if they don't like this motion, they can vote against it. That is their prerogative as members. I would urge everyone to support this motion. This is a valuable piece of information that is very dignified.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks very much.

Could you get back to the subject? It looks like you are reading from a document or something. I would prefer if we just get back to the amendment at hand. Understand that we do offer wide latitude, but we do need to get to the amendment eventually.