Government Operations Committee on May 15th, 2024

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I call this meeting to order.

Good morning. Welcome to meeting number 121 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates.

Just as a reminder, everyone, regarding feedback, keep your headpieces and earpieces away from the microphones at all times. I assume that no one has the sticker on their desk at home or back in their office, but please keep your voices down and headsets away from microphones.

We are resuming debate on the motion moved by Mr. Genuis and the amendment of Ms. Goodridge regarding the opioid crisis. We are debating the amendment.

At the time of adjournment last Wednesday, Mr. Kusmierczyk had the floor, but as I recall, I think he was turning the floor over to Mr. Jowhari. I will leave that with Mr. Kusmierczyk.

You have the floor, then, and Mr. Jowhari is on the speaking list.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Yes. I'm happy to say a few words before I pass it on to my colleague here.

Again, on the motion brought forward by my colleague, I just want to emphasize the facts here that—

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I'm sorry. I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Go ahead, Ms. Zarrillo.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

It's my first time attending this committee virtually. I see that at least one member of the committee has their camera off. I'm just wondering what the protocol is for this committee. Do we need to have our camera on the whole time?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I don't believe so. Cameras have to be on if members are voting, I believe, but just for this, no.

If you're fine with that, we'll go back to Mr. Kusmierczyk.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

I was just going to state that, again, the important fact is that the committee on health is already studying the opioid epidemic and toxic drug crisis. That is what their study is called, “opioid epidemic and toxic drug crisis”. It's a serious issue.

They've looked at it. They've had 41 witnesses already studying this issue. They've had 10 meetings. I imagine that many more will be scheduled. They've heard from nurses, doctors and frontline staff. They've heard from organizations, hospitals and associations. They've heard from police associations and you name it. They're doing some tremendous work there. They're already far advanced in terms of studying the opioid epidemic and toxic drug crisis.

Again, I again want to emphasize that I truly believe that this study and this motion should have been brought up at the health committee. They've already studied contracts in the past. Medicago comes to mind. They absolutely have all the resources and all the expertise they require in order to study contracts.

It has been my position from the beginning that this should be brought in front of HESA. I don't quite understand why it would be brought here. I don't think my colleagues have adequately answered that question, but again, I'm open to the discussions we're having here today. Ultimately, our goal is to make sure that the work gets done and that this issue, this significant and serious issue that's impacting our communities, is addressed and receives the attention it rightfully deserves.

With that, I'll yield the floor to Mr. Jowhari.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Just as a reminder, we are debating the amendment and not the motion. At the last meeting, we allowed more than enough leeway on relevance and repetition. I'm going to suggest that we will not be doing that on the amendment. If we can get through the amendment, certainly that leeway will be extended to the motion itself.

We should stick to the amendment, which is just replacing “in any safe supply program” with the words “in any safer supply, safe supply or prescribed alternative programs”, and adding, after “of the adoption of this order”, the words “; and that the committee shares the documents received with the Standing Committee on Health”.

We are debating the amendment. We have to stick to that. If not, we will follow the rule, which is to bump to the next speaker and then perhaps get to the main motion.

Go ahead.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I have a point of order.

Mr. Kusmierczyk can't just give the floor to another colleague.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Yes, I know.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I did have my hand raised, and Mr. Jowhari didn't.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We're continuing the speaking list from last meeting. I had Mr. Kusmierczyk and then Mr. Jowhari. Then I have you, Mr. Genuis.

I appreciate that Mr. Kusmierczyk's trying to help me out here.

Go ahead, Mr. Jowhari.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Good morning Chair.

Thank you.

We have a number of new members in this committee about to vote on the amendment. Before I get to my intervention, could I ask the chair or the clerk to read the motion and the amendment? Basically, we can then move to vote on the amendment.

I'm not going to have an intervention on the amendment, but I'm going to have an intervention on the main motion. I don't want to spend a lot of time rehashing what has already been said.

I know that our colleague MP Longfield, our colleague Madame Larouche.... I think we have another colleague from the NDP who's joined us.

Perhaps I could ask the chair's indulgence to read the main motion and then the amendment so that it's very clear what we're voting on. I appreciate your indulgence on that.

I'll take the floor after the vote.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I just read out the amendment. That's what we are debating right now.

I'm going to assume that the Bloc, the NDP and the Liberals have capable staff who have distributed the motion to their teams.

I'm happy to get the amendment put to bed and then get back to debating the main motion. I don't see a point of rereading the amendment that I just read.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

If all colleagues are comfortable with the amendment, we can move to the vote on the amendment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I can reread the amendment, if you wish.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

I would appreciate it if you could read the amendment, because I see a couple of nods.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

The amendment we're debating is as follows: “that the motion be amended by replacing the words 'in any safe supply program' with the words 'in any safer supply, safe supply or prescribed alternative programs' and by adding after the words 'of the adoption of this order' the words '; and that the committee share the documents received with the Standing Committee on Health'”.

It's adding the words “safer supply, safe supply or prescribed alternative programs” and that we'll share the docs with the health committee.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I know I cannot force a vote, but at this point, our side is ready to vote on the amendment.

I yield the floor to you, whether you choose to pass it on or to call the vote.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you, Mr. Jowhari.

I think we had pretty much reached consensus at the last meeting, so I appreciate this intervention.

Colleagues, are we all fine with the amendment?

(Amendment agreed to)

We are now on the main motion as amended.

Go ahead, Mr. Jowhari.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We are back on the main motion. It basically states the following:

That the committee, in relation to the opioid epidemic and toxic drug crisis in Canada,

(a) order the production of all contracts, agreements and memoranda of understanding to which the Government of Canada is a party, signed since January 1, 2016, concerning the purchase, acquisition or transfer of Dilaudid or any generic form of hydromorphone for use in any safer supply, safe supply, prescribed alternative programs, provided that these documents shall be deposited with the clerk of the committee, in an unredacted form and in both official languages, within three weeks of the adoption of this motion.

Here is basically the genesis. Again, I did that because I wanted to make sure my colleagues joining the call understood what the main motion was now.

We are talking about the production of contracts, agreements and memoranda. Basically, we are asking for any contract—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm sorry, but I'm just going to interrupt you for a couple of seconds. I think you may have misread the motion, so I'm going to have the clerk send you—

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

My apologies.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

That's okay. I'm going to get you to continue, but the clerk is going to send, to everyone's P9s, the amended motion.

Mr. Jowhari, go ahead.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you to the clerk.

The genesis of this is that when we look at the production of, let's say, any type of contract, we have to go back and figure out what the process is. What was the process for issuing any type of prescription to an individual as a result of those individuals referring to either using a safe supply or a safer supply, or going to an office?

When you look at it, first of all, the Government of Canada, through PHAC, does not sign any contract with any manufacturer for the purchase of any types of drugs that are directed to the safer supply side or to the safe supply side. That's number one. There is nothing in the Government of Canada where they would have signed any contract with any manufacturer.

[Technical difficulty—Editor] Number two, what does the Government of Canada—