Government Operations Committee on May 15th, 2024

[Shirley Carruthers]

That's correct. Given the global context we find ourselves in, we're dealing with an unprecedented number of crises in any given year, so within Global Affairs Canada, we continually have to find ways to reallocate our resources internally to respond. As one example, with the present situation in Haiti, the department has had to stand up a Haiti task force, so we're always pivoting our resources.

That's one reason why I mentioned that this was a bit proactive. When we do an audit or something like this, it gives me an opportunity to better understand where the risks are within the department. Then we're able to reallocate our resources to those areas so that we're able to put processes in place to mitigate those risks.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you, Mr. Jowhari.

Ms. Larouche, welcome to OGGO. I apologize for all the tech issues. We have plenty of issues with OGGO, but tech is normally not one of them. Hopefully, we'll get them fixed.

Go ahead, please, for six minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The unfortunate thing about these committee meetings where we're all participating via Zoom is that there are a lot of technical problems. I hope that you can hear me okay. It's not easy when so many of us are connected at the same time to discuss such an important subject.

That said, I'm listening to you, our witnesses, and I note there was a similar audit in 2019, five years ago. In response to previous questions from my fellow members, you said that there were a number of changes, but I'd like to hear you talk more about that since your answer was rather vague and brief. I'd like to know a bit more about the changes you implemented, because it's been five years now.

You said that you reduced the number of errors, but could you be more specific? I'd like to give you more time to respond to this important question.

[Shirley Carruthers]

Thank you very much for your question.

We've implemented new tools.

One example is an electronic signature solution. Within this audit, there were 19 different issues of non-compliance with the Financial Administration Act. The inception of this new tool will mitigate the majority of those risks. It puts a check verification within the system so that an employee wouldn't be able to inadvertently sign an invoice over their delegated authority limits or against a fund centre that didn't belong to them. As I mentioned, by putting in this new tool and some of the other tools, including increased training and measures on awareness, we were able to mitigate a lot of risks.

If we think about our payment process within the department, we use a risk-based approach and do post-payment verification on all low-risk transactions. For these transactions, if we were to look at our compliance rate over the last two years, we would find that the majority are now compliant. Our non-compliance rate went from 9% to 3%, and we are quite proud of those results.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

You already mentioned the electronic signature in your opening remarks. In spite of everything you're telling us, Ms. Carruthers, some problems persist, according to the audit, which was carried out in accordance with the 2023‑2025 Risk-Based Audit Plan, which Global Affairs Canada approved.

Why was the procurement of consulting services identified as a risk?

[Shirley Carruthers]

I'll let my colleague Daniel Pilon respond.

[Daniel Pilon, Director General, National Accommodations, Domestic Procurement and Asset Management, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair. My name is Daniel Pilon, and I'm the director general of procurement at Global Affairs Canada.

A procurement-related risk was identified, quite simply because of the nature and volume of transactions we carry out. We have over 170 missions throughout the world. As you can see from the public accounts, we award an average of 8,000 contracts annually, valued at between $300 million and $500 million.

Given the magnitude of those figures, our department wants to ensure that it has the necessary controls and processes in place to properly manage those contracts.

One reason we consider this area to be a risk is that we always want to keep our finger on the pulse of transactions across the department. That's also why we make continual requests for internal audits. There was one in 2018. There have been several involving specific missions. A new audit was carried out last year and published this year. Our risk management plan provides for ongoing audits in this area.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

That leads me to a supplementary question, which either Ms. Carruthers or Mr. Pilon can answer.

Ms. Carruthers, when you talked about the missions, you mentioned Haiti, which has experienced a number of crises. What have you learned from the current situation in Haiti that might be relevant for the committee now?

[Shirley Carruthers]

It was merely an example of a situation where the department had to reassign resources. The last question was about how the department did that, so I used that as an example.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Understood. I might come back to that in another round.

Are there any other procurement-related risks identified in your audit plan, and if so, what are they?

[Shirley Carruthers]

I can ask my colleague Ms. Lalonde to respond to that question.

[Natalie Lalonde, Chief Audit Executive, Office of the Chief Audit Executive, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

Thank you very much.

Good afternoon, my name is Natalie Lalonde. I'm the chief audit executive at Global Affairs Canada.

Thank you for the question.

There are always risks when it comes to contracting. However, when we do our risk assessment for our annual plan, we look at all of the department's risks. Then, with the information at our disposal, internally and externally, about what is happening in the environment, we set a number of commitments we make per year to support the organization's objectives.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Zarrillo, go ahead for six minutes.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair, for the time today.

My comments will be for Ms. Carruthers to start, but I have to say that I'm very pleased the Conservative caucus is not in charge of any of these projects, because their team can't even get their technology—

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Pardon me, Mr. Chair. I have a point of order.

I'm not getting the interpretation.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm sorry, Ms. Zarrillo.

Go ahead, Ms. Larouche.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

There's no interpretation, Mr. Chair. I don't know whether it's because of the dog.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Very ironically, the interpretation went down.

Is it working now, Ms. Larouche?

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Yes, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Apparently, the interpreter is saying that it might be the dog or an animal in your office, Ms. Zarrillo.

Why don't we start your six minutes from the beginning?

Go ahead, Ms. Zarrillo.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order, I thought it might be apropos to share with the committee a piece of scriptural wisdom: Do not remove a sliver from your brother's eye when you have a log—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you. Can we—

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Mr. Chair—

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Chair, it is my time, and this is not a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Ms. Zarrillo, I will decide whether the points of order are relevant.

I have a point of order from Ms. Larouche, if everyone could please allow Ms. Larouche the courtesy.