Evidence of meeting #123 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was doan.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
We are back in public.
Thank you, everyone, for your patience.
We have an additional budget for the GAC audit of consulting services. It's $1,500, but of course we won't spend anywhere near that.
Can I get approval for that, everyone? It has been distributed already.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
Wonderful. Thank you very much.
Number two is the one that never goes away. It keeps coming back. It's into its third Parliament. It's the shipbuilding study.
This is not for getting approval to do it. This is to approve the budget to send to the Liaison Committee to try again. It has been approved in the past by the House. The last time we sent it in, it was not approved, so we are trying again. It's travel if necessary, but not necessarily travel.
The idea is one trip east and one trip west. The west one is Vancouver and Victoria to Seaspan and the Victoria shipyard. The east one, of course, will be to Quebec City, to Davie, and to Halifax for Irving.
We have distributed the budgets. Can we just get approval to send it to LIAI?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
Wonderful. Thank you very much.
There are a couple of things for next week.
On May 27, we're doing the red tape, which is the one that we rescheduled. If you recall, we had one set up. We had to bump them. That will be on Monday.
On May 29, we have agreement that we're doing the main estimates. We'll have Minister Duclos here and Minister Anand. It's from 4:30 to 6:30. I'm not sure who's going to do 4:30 to 5:30 and who's going to do 5:30 to 6:30.
Then, from 6:30 to 8:30, we're continuing the Canada Post study with the president of Canada Post, just to keep Mr. Bachrach happy.
I apologize, everyone. It is going to be a long meeting. That is next Wednesday.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Next Wednesday, the first two hours are going to be the main estimates and then...?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
From 6:30 to 8:30, it will be the president of Canada Post.
Unfortunately, we have to do it like this because it's the only day the ministers and the president of Canada Post stated that they would agree to attend. If they had agreed to do different dates, then we would not be sitting for four hours. This is literally the only day they would agree to. In order to do so, we're going to make it a long day.
I had Mr. Bains first, but let me just go through it quickly.
On June 3, if you recall, we agreed we would have officials from PSPC and TBS for the main estimates. On that date, instead of them being here for two hours, with one hour for Minister Anand, for example, and one hour with the officials, they're going to appear separately. That will be June 3 for the main estimates.
Finishing out the month, we have the supplementary estimates (A) coming out soon, and then we'll have our usual Canada Post, red tape and other stuff. We'll fill that in once we get the supplementary estimates.
I have Mr. Bains on the schedule. Is it on what I'm talking about?
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Yes. I'm not sure I heard a timeline or estimated date on the shipbuilding piece.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
What the committee agreed to a long time ago would be summer travel.
Again, that's if it gets past LIAI, if it gets approved by the House and then approved by the parties. They're big ifs, but this is the first step.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
I will say there are some completion dates in August that are taking place at the Seaspan shipyard in Vancouver with a couple of the ships.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
I've been speaking to several of the shipyards. They're very anxious to have us not out.
No, they've seemed quite anxious to have us out. It is the largest purchase in Government of Canada history, but in the end it's not up to us around the table.
Mr. Bachrach, is this on the schedule?
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
I didn't hear clarity on the point. When the two ministers show up to talk about the estimates, are they concurrent or sequential?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
I'm not sure if it's Minister Anand and then Minister Duclos. Oh, it will be Minister Duclos first and then Minister Anand. They'll have their usual officials with them. For the second hour, we normally have solely the officials. We will do that on June 3.
Conservative
Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
Thank you, Chair. I heard June 3. Is June 5 programmed?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
I'm waiting to see what comes out with the supplementary estimates (A). We'll go from there, so that is our schedule coming up.
I have Ms. Block and then I have Mr. Kusmierczyk. We have about 22 minutes.
Ms. Block, go ahead.
Conservative
Liberal
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
Ms. Block caught my eye first, so it's Ms. Block and then you, Mr. Kusmierczyk.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I would like to move the following motion:
That, in relation to its study of the ArriveCAN application, Minh Doan be ordered to appear before the committee for three hours, at a date and time to be fixed by the chair, but no later than June 7, 2024, provided that (a) Mr. Doan be offered all the accommodations that were offered to Kristian Firth and (b) if Mr. Doan does not appear as ordered, the chair be directed to report the material facts of the matter to the House forthwith.
Really briefly, Mr. Chair, as you will all recall, Mr. Doan appeared before the committee. Shortly after he appeared, Mr. MacDonald and Mr. Utano provided testimony that caused us, as a committee, to agree unanimously that he should be called back. Finally, there was an article that came out in January around getting rid of data files, moving them around and deleting them, that further caused us to want to hear from Mr. Doan.
I'll leave it there, Mr. Chair and throw it open for any other comments.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
I have Ms. Kusie.
Ms. Vignola, did you have a hand up?
It's Ms. Kusie and then Ms. Vignola.
Conservative
Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I think it goes without saying that I support the motion as put forward by my colleague. As of January 24, 2024, Mr. Doan has been on medical leave. This was the time we first received the document, the letter from his lawyer, indicating that he was on this medical leave. Public servants can take a maximum of 27 unpaid sick weeks, but this time is coming to a close.
I think this committee has shown Mr. Doan a significant amount of compassion and has been respectful of his needs and of this time he has needed to heal, to reflect upon the case at hand, but the reality is that he is significantly implicated within the arrive scam scandal, first of all, of course, from the point of incompetence, given that he was simply unable to explain to this group why he was so unaware as to the lack of project management and the lack of documentation, and second, of course, on the question that has plagued this committee: Who chose GC Strategies?
This is just an incredible amount of incompetence, but more importantly, Mr. Chair, from the position that his actions really would reflect those of not having been ethical.
First of all, in potentially lying to this committee relative to the selection of GC Strategies, he indicated that his team had chosen GC Strategies, whereas his subordinates, both Mr. MacDonald and Mr. Utano, were adamant that it was he himself who made the selection of GC Strategies.
Second, relative to his promotion, he indicated that he had gone through a significant competition relative to receiving his position at Treasury Board. Anyone who has been through a public service substantive process can tell you that it is not something that is taken lightly, and there are many steps and much preparation in an effort to receive a substantive role within the public service, and certainly one of that significance, but again his colleagues countered what he said. In fact, he, in his testimony to our former NDP colleague here and me gave differing information that he had in fact not received the position as a result of a substantive process but was chosen for it.
Of course, as well, we have the issue of him uttering threats, threats to Mr. MacDonald, after Mr. Doan supposedly received a call from the then minister of public safety, Mr. Mendicino, who, I will add, has not yet appeared at this committee and should have appeared at this committee by now relative to arrive scam. Mr. Doan apparently, according to Mr. MacDonald, called Mr. MacDonald at that time and threatened Mr. MacDonald's career. He has to come forward and account for that. This is just not to be taken lightly, uttering threats such as this.
Also, of course, my colleague Mrs. Block pointed out the deletion of thousands of emails. We've all certainly deleted an email now and then in error, something that.... Even deleting a single email brings about much stress, much concern, but deleting thousands of emails explains many administrative gaps, in fact.... He denies this as well.
It's just evident that Mr. Doan is a significant part of the arrive scam scandal. He is a piece of the puzzle and, most importantly, he must be held accountable for both his incompetence and his unethical behaviour.
There comes a time, Mr. Chair, when everyone has to pay the piper, and Mr. Doan's time has arrived. Therefore, I support Mrs. Block's motion and hope my colleagues will agree that it is long past the time for Mr. Doan to come before this committee and explain his actions.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
