Government Operations Committee on May 29th, 2024

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

That is exactly one of the important things the department needs to do in collaboration with other departments, because PSPC is not the only department.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Just give me a number. What percentage is it?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Those multiple levels include not only who does the job but also who owns the company and the impact in the communities where those contracts take place, for instance—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Minister, it's a simple question. I'm running out of time. What is the percentage?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

I'm just trying to explain the context—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I'm not looking for an explanation. I'm looking for a number.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

If you'd like to discuss it further, I'd be very happy to do that.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I'm just going to say, Minister, that the committee ordered information on subcontracts and almost none was provided. The information we got from the vast majority of departments is that they're not even tracking subcontracts.

I have a final question. There are over 600 indigenous nations in this country. Do you think it would be a problem if a single company were getting, say, more than 5% of the total amount allocated for indigenous procurement?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Give a very brief answer, please, Minister.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

There are about 600 indigenous communities in Canada, and about 70 indigenous first nations. We work with all of them to make sure they have access to the proper services and procurement opportunities.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Chair, the minister didn't answer the question. I wonder if it could be posed to him again. Maybe there was a problem with the translation.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We are out of time.

Perhaps you can get back to us with a real answer in writing, Minister.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

If more is needed, we'll provide more.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

What would be too much for a single company?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Genuis, I'm afraid we have to move on. We have other ministers waiting.

Mr. Sousa, go ahead for five minutes, please.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here.

I know you've done a lot of deliberation and work on adopting some of the recommendations made by the Auditor General and the procurement ombudsman officer relative to issues around procurement.

Certainly, this was a long-held practice of the prior Conservative government—contracting and subcontracting in matters regarding IT as well as building properties. You get a property manager and he subcontracts out the various services to get it built. It's not different from what we've done in a number of applications here.

Through your deliberations, I know you've done a lot of work to try to ensure we support transparency and accountability in those measures, whether that is for indigenous members in the community or.... I know you're trying to advocate for small business, so we have greater use of procurement to enable Canadian companies to benefit from that.

This is a statement I make on my part, and you can certainly elaborate on it: I'm rather excited about a development in my community. Canada Lands owns a property on Port Street. It has a waterfront. It's meant for mixed-use development with a park and affordable housing. The community is very excited about it. It's been rather stagnant for years and years. The fact is that Canada Lands is stepping up through your leadership to try to look at redevelopment for that property. I'm very excited about it. It's also because, in budget 2024, we announced an overhaul to the mandate of Canada Lands and its ability to take on more development.

I would ask if you could elaborate and explain some of these reforms regarding the Canada Lands mandate.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Thank you, Charles.

We're so glad to hear that the Canada Lands Company is already leading and partnering in your community.

As you know, there is going to be even more of that in other places across Canada, because of not only a renewed but also a much enhanced mandate in budget 2024, with tools that will support your community. As I mentioned earlier, there are leasing tools. That's as opposed to going through what is sometimes too long and complicated a process, which is disposing of properties by selling them to the highest bidder. Why don't we lease those properties over a long time to community developers, not-for-profit housing developers, municipalities and other groups that will then commit to building affordable homes in the long term? Affordability is key not only in the short term but also in the longer term. It's using that to support the efforts of co-operatives and public housing.

In addition to leasing, Canada Lands Company would also have the ability to develop the projects themselves. I should also add—I was going to forget—that, in budget 2024, there is a $500-million fund so the federal government can acquire public land that is not currently owned by the federal government. It could be owned by municipal or provincial governments. We can buy those pieces of land, make buildings and make them available to the community through, again, possibly lease agreements, with lots of positive economic, social and environmental outcomes.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

There are reforms now being made to enhance Canada Lands. Can you elaborate a bit more on how they extend or promote affordable housing—and promote housing throughout the country?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

The key word here is “accelerating.” Over the last 25 years, Canada Lands has built about 2,400 affordable homes. In the last eight years, they have built 1,200 homes. That's a lot more than in the previous 16 years. In the next five years, the Canada Lands Company will be able to build more than 5,000 affordable homes in partnership with others. It's a lot of ambition. The good news is that there are means to do it through your leadership and the leadership of other MPs in all political parties in this room and elsewhere.

Now we have, as the Prime Minister said today in question period, a housing crisis like we had post the Second World War. We had one when we had the boomer population trying to find homes in the 1960s. We have a crisis we can solve. We will be solving it with the partnership of many and the support of the Canada Lands Company.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

It looks like I have a bit more time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

You have 11 seconds.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Do you want to respond to the recommendations that you've promoted regarding contracting and the procurement processes recently, to some of the recommendations that you've applied, for the benefit of this committee?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

I need a lot more time, because I have about....

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

You don't have time for that.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

I know you have.