Government Operations Committee on June 3rd, 2024

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Okay, sure. Thank you very much. What proportion of the funds requested in these estimates will be allocated to improving the capacity of the translation bureau? We've run into a few issues with a lot of our documents for this committee in particular, but I know it's something we're considering as a whole of government. Are there conversations about improving that capacity?

[Arianne Reza]

PSPC is the home of the translation bureau of the Government of Canada and, as you note, we have a lot of competing priorities, be it Parliament or the various departments that use our services. Budget 2024 gave the bureau some O and M for about $35 million worth of work, which will help with some of the backlogs we're experiencing. It will help attract some new talent for translation and for interpreters in various different elements and different formats. It's super important to us. I know that we have been trying to keep up with the timelines for certain documents, and I have looked over the last three or four years to see the level and the volume of translation that we're doing here for the houses as well as for supporting departmental efforts. This money will be a welcome reprieve to help us.

I also think there was an intent to put together some small scholarships to be able to attract translators from across the country.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Great. Thank you very much.

I was actually at a funding announcement this morning with regard to artificial intelligence and cybersecurity, so I'm just curious about the following. What risks, if any, have you identified concerning the translation bureau's increased use of artificial intelligence solutions such as the GClingua?

[Arianne Reza]

I'll start and then I'll turn to Dominic. We actually find it's a very powerful tool to be able to help the translators reduce what has already been translated by them and focus on some of the new language coming out, some of the more high-yield, complex language where that nuance and that human interaction is important.

Dominic?

[Dominic Laporte, Assistant Deputy Minister, Procurement Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services]

I'm happy to complement that.

We have seen huge progress with respect to AI over the last few years. For translation, the DM did mention that it's a tool, and we believe in humans, that people can increase their productivity but need to be able to leverage those tools. At the end, there is always basically a professional translator and we want to make sure that this person is going to be reviewing the material before it's being sent to the client.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Excellent. Thank you very much. I believe in people as well, but we certainly have the tools that we can harness to help us do our work.

I think that's very close to my time. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks very much. Mrs. Vignola, please.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for being with us today.

Ms. Reza, I'm going to ask you the question that I put to Mr. Duclos last week concerning the disposal of land and buildings.

What I'm mainly concerned about is that, even when property is disposed of, it may still remain federal property in whole or in part, which implies that it's not necessarily the laws and regulations of the province or municipality that are being applied.

Would you please reassure me on that score? If you dispose of a piece of land or a building, it's the laws and regulations of the province or municipality that will apply to that property, not federal laws, isn't it?

[Arianne Reza]

Thank you for that question.

We were actually here last Wednesday and I took note of that question. We're studying the scenarios. We would like to introduce a new housing program, but we first have to form a clear understanding of the scenarios involved. We'll get back to you on that when we have more details.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much.

With regard to housing, there's no federal legislation protecting either renters or owners. Consequently, if the federal government were to be responsible for disposing of that land, it could cause a really confusing situation in Quebec in particular, and likely elsewhere in Canada too.

Earlier you mentioned ethics and supplier compliance, which are important issues to consider. So I'm going to discuss them with you.

We've also observed that this problem may not concern suppliers only and that situations could arise in which certain public servants might be involved in ethics and compliance problems.

How can we ensure that public servants act responsibly when it comes to ethics and compliance? If they aren't responsible, how can we make sure that the individuals who act unethically and fail to comply are penalized, not the suppliers?

[Arianne Reza]

Thank you for that question.

Earlier you spoke with representatives of the Treasury Board Secretariat about the Canada School of Public Service. I think the school needs to play a key role in this area.

The onus is on all public servants to know their responsibilities under the Value and Ethics Code for the Public Sector. Since we last appeared here in committee, we've begun to change our internal practices in order to have more discussions with employees and to offer them training related to their responsibilities when they need to report potential conflicts.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you.

Now I'll move on to another subject.

I have some good news that was recently announced in Quebec City concerning the federal government's decision to buy back the Quebec Bridge.

I see there's no mention of the purchase in the estimates, and that's because the agreement was reached just a few weeks ago. It doesn't appear in the Supplementary Estimates (A) either. We know that the Quebec Bridge, which is a heritage gem—and one that's recognized by UNESCO—is in terrible condition. We should announce that money is available to restore it.

When will we start discussing that funding? And how much would a rebuild cost per year?

Has the federal government issued calls to tender to restore the Quebec Bridge?

[Arianne Reza]

Thank you for that question.

I'll look into it, but I don't think there have been any calls to tender. We have to work with the key department, and I think that will be Infrastructure Canada. We'll verify that information.

We'll be there to provide assistance when the time comes to award contracts to repair the bridge, or to meet any other needs.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much.

Please don't be offended, Ms. Reza, but I'm going to go to Mr. Page.

Mr. Page, Mirabel International Airport is a major aeronautics centre, particularly for training and aircraft maintenance.

With regard to the F-35 purchase contracts, is Mirabel still the preferred aircraft maintenance and repairs facility?

[Simon Page, Assistant Deputy Minister, Defence and Marine Procurement, Department of Public Works and Government Services]

Thank you very much for your question.

As you know, the F-35 acquisition program is under way. We expect to receive the first aircraft here in Canada in 2026 and 2027.

As regards the economic impact for Canada, there are many components in this project, and we've initiated one to organize a competition to select an engine maintenance warehouse.

We've begun the process with the U.S. Joint Program Office because we're now conducting our activities under a partnership agreement. Companies across Canada will be involved in this selection process.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I would note that Mirabel already has extensive expertise in this area.

Am I to understand that this expertise isn't really recognized and that it could easily be forgotten?

[Simon Page]

We're very much aware of Mirabel's expertise, and we always make good use of it.

Once we've selected an engine maintenance warehouse, as I just said, we will proceed with other selection processes, this time for an airframe warehouse.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm afraid I have to cut you off, Mr. Page. We are out of time, but perhaps on the next intervention....

Mr. Bachrach, go ahead, please.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thanks to our witnesses.

In my questioning of the officials from the Treasury Board, we were talking about the return-to-work directive and the process for ensuring that the physical spaces that employees are returning to are appropriate for their jobs. My question was around what standards PSPC utilizes in that process, because I'm hearing from public sector employees who are concerned that the spaces they're being asked to return to are not always going to be appropriate for the tasks they're asked to perform.

Is there a defined standard for returning to an office environment that PSPC is utilizing?

[Arianne Reza]

Thank you very much.

I'll start with one quick additional comment. We're doing two things at once. We're looking to reduce the portfolio by 50%, so to remove land, and that means we're going to densify a lot of the buildings.

In terms of the fit-up that you ask about, we do two things. We follow provincial and federal building codes that are set by various federal, provincial, territorial.... The federal ones have an NRC, National Research Council, link.

As it relates to the fit-up, we also look at the industry standards for office space, and we're consistent. We are moving to a new standard, and they're formalizing what that will look like. It will be approximately nine metres squared.

I would add that the key addition here is that not all office space is equal. You may need special purpose space depending on the type of work you're in, depending on if you're dealing with highly sensitive legal matters, if there's national security. It is not a standard that will be applied as one-size-fits-all, and every deputy head is going to be looking at how best to optimize that space so the employees have a space that's welcoming and accessible.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

For a generic office job, asking an employee to return to that office, they should expect about nine metres squared per employee for their function.

[Arianne Reza]

Roughly, yes.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

In terms of the rest of the work environment, when it comes to privacy, the sound environment, that kind of thing, are there standards for that as well, or does it vary by workplace?

[Arianne Reza]

Again, I think that is going to be consistent with the federal standards that are established through the building codes, the provincial....

I heard you in your earlier comment talking about people who don't have desks. That's obviously not acceptable. Over the course of the remainder of the year, we will be looking to make sure that it's as seamless as possible as we go to unassigned.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

There was a mention of a four-month period that employers were being given to ensure that the new workspaces employees were being asked to return to were appropriate. Is four months enough time? When you're talking about renovations of buildings, that seems like an incredibly short amount of time.