Evidence of meeting #126 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pspc.
A video is available from Parliament.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Okay. Since you're here today, how often at Treasury Board have you requested a postaudit?
11:55 a.m.
Assistant Comptroller General, Acquired Services and Assets Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
I don't manage contracts, so I'll turn to the CFO.
June 3rd, 2024 / 11:55 a.m.
Karen Cahill Assistant Secretary and Chief Financial Officer, Treasury Board Secretariat
Thank you for the question.
Actually, since this policy came into place, TBS has not requested any postaudits.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Okay.
As a committee, we requested subcontracting information. We got almost none. The only way that would be being verified is either by keeping track of those subcontracts so that others could look at this, or by having those postaudits done, and we hear that TBS has not requested any postaudits. I think that underlines my concern that this core requirement in relation to the program—ensuring there are actually business opportunities going to indigenous peoples—is not actually being checked in any meaningful way.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you for being here, and congratulations again on your promotion.
How many contracts does the government do?
11:55 a.m.
Assistant Comptroller General, Acquired Services and Assets Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
Contract amendments in any given year are close to 400,000, possibly.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
There was some discussion around the declarations of conflict. People voluntarily come forward saying they don't know if they can deal with this particular contract. You said there were about 79 out of 400,000.
11:55 a.m.
Assistant Comptroller General, Acquired Services and Assets Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
Those may be two different issues, and I'll turn to my OCHRO friends here. It is incumbent upon an employee, if they feel they may be in a conflict of interest, to submit a conflict of interest form to have it assessed, and, if necessary, either not take a contract or have mitigation measures put in place in relationship to that conflict of interest declaration that's been submitted.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
That's correct. Is there anything untoward in doing so? Is that a normal practice? Is that an appropriate thing for us to take?
11:55 a.m.
Assistant Comptroller General, Acquired Services and Assets Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
I'll turn to Heidi.
11:55 a.m.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, People and Culture, Treasury Board Secretariat
Yes, it is the responsibility of the employee to assess and understand if they may have a perceived or potential conflict of interest, and to use the appropriate system and supports to report that.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
11:55 a.m.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, People and Culture, Treasury Board Secretariat
Yes.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Out of the 400,000—all the contracts that are done—a number of them have come forward noting that this is going to be an issue, so they've taken the proper steps to protect the integrity of the system, the integrity of government—and themselves in this case.
11:55 a.m.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, People and Culture, Treasury Board Secretariat
Yes.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Are there recent policy augmentations—or anything in regard to this— that have been put forward?
11:55 a.m.
Assistant Comptroller General, Acquired Services and Assets Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
Maybe I'll just take that.
Last week a mandatory procedure was announced. As I was explaining, in procurement there's the procurement officer, who executes the process, but there's also the person who wants the actual procurement. What we've done is that we're embedding into the approval process that before a contract gets signed, that person—we call them the "business owner"—signs off that they understand the contract, and part of that is that they are not in a conflict of interest themselves. That's embedded. They will have to sign off before a contract is signed.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Those are measures that ensure safety and security too. Can you talk about the information of the networks, then? Can you talk about the augmentation or the recent policy implementation that Treasury Board has taken to ensure there's safety and security for Canadian information within the Government of Canada network?
Noon
Chief Data Officer and Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy and Performance Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
I'll give you a quick answer, and then maybe you can see if I'm hitting what you're after here.
We've put a number of safeguards in place, both across the technologies and in terms of how we manage people's data, to make sure it is not compromised either through a cyber-attack or by an inadvertent privacy breach or something like that.
Is there something in particular you're trying to...?
Noon
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Well, I'm just trying to ensure that systems are in place, given that there are so many contractors, so many engagements; that steps are taken to protect the interests of the stakeholders involved, the individuals involved, as well as the employees and the staff; and that safeguards are in place for any declaration of information that's brought forward because it has become public.
Noon
Chief Data Officer and Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy and Performance Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
Yes, it's 100%. We have 40 years of operating within the construct of the Privacy Act and a fairly robust policy piece that sits underneath the legislation. It's one of those fundamental things we train public servants on—to understand where they have to monitor for risks to individual information. As well, on the cyber side, we build a fairly high level of safeguards into our technology systems to avoid inadvertent releases. The reality is, as I was saying in response to a question earlier, we live in a world where there are constant threats of this, so there are always incidents, both on the cyber side and on the privacy side, that have to be managed. However, we have strong safeguards in place across the system.
Noon
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
In regard to consultants, a lot of discussion around this table has been about the system of procurement and the degree of interchange between consultants, contractors, subcontractors and so forth.
What effort is being taken by the federal government to reduce the amount of staff augmentation within the public service and to rather focus on building skills and capabilities within the public service ranks? There's a lack of capacity within the system, and that's why consultants are taken in.
Noon
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
Yes, I'm afraid we don't have time for a response, but perhaps you can get back to us as best as you're able to in writing.
Witnesses, thank you very much for being with us again. It's been a long time since we last saw you.
We'll suspend for about five minutes and bring forward the next round.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
We are back, everyone. Thank you for your patience.
I understand that we have an opening statement by Ms. Reza.
The floor is yours for five minutes, please.