Government Operations Committee on June 3rd, 2024

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much.

How much time do I have left, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

You have one minute.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I'm going to go back to the task force that's responsible for examining the Act to amend the Public Servants Disclosure Protection Act.

If I'm not mistaken, you said in your remarks that the members of that task force were volunteers and that the funds allocated to the task force, $2.4 million over 5 years, are to cover their travel, meetings and other expenses.

Is that $2.4 million in funding enough? We're talking about a task force that has to conduct a careful examination of a very important act and about members whose situations may differ across the country.

[Annie Boudreau]

I said in my remarks that the funding was adequate.

My colleague Ms. Kutz is responsible for the task force, and she can provide you with more information.

[Heidi Kutz]

I can confirm that it's enough for the moment. Of course, the staff responsible for providing support to the task force receive salaries. They organize meetings, prepare materials, liaise with stakeholders and conduct research.

In addition, as you mentioned, task force members—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you. I'm afraid that is our time. If you have anything else, perhaps you can provide it to us in writing.

Mr. Bachrach.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you very much.

Thanks to our witnesses. Happy Monday.

My colleague and I were just discussing the funding for PacifiCan in the budget, and it appears that there's a significant reduction. I'm just wondering if you can explain the numbers I'm looking at right now.

For 2022-23, there was $219.8 million, which goes down to $118.4 million in the 2024-25 budget. Can you explain the significant reduction in this organization, which aims to diversify B.C.'s economy? It certainly has an impact where I live.

[Rod Greenough]

I can give a partial answer.

We'll return at the same time as we do for the Quebec regional development agency. We can just come back with a whole answer for all of the regional development agencies.

However, in general, these organizations had significant funding through COVID, which is winding down as we go through the year. That's one aspect.

The second thing to clarify is that there was the refocusing government spending exercise. There were no reductions to the contribution programs through that exercise. It's not that the money has been reallocated elsewhere. It is primarily a wind-down of COVID programs.

We can get back to you with a more complete response.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

The economic development agencies, if I understand it, were a mechanism, a vehicle, for delivering COVID funds. Now that those programs have wound down, we're seeing a commensurate reduction.

[Rod Greenough]

That's correct.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Are the numbers that we see likely to be the numbers going forward? Is that considered the base investment in those agencies?

[Rod Greenough]

We would have to return in writing with that.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Olay. That would be good.

At our last meeting, I asked Minister Anand a question about the return-to-office mandate.

I've received emails about this from public servants in northwestern B.C. There's a lot of concern, and there are a lot of questions that folks feel haven't been answered. We ran out of time. When I asked the question, I think it was deferred to the public service to explain the mandate, and then we ran out of minutes.

I'm wondering if someone can pick up where we left off last week and provide the rationale, particularly in light of the evidence that suggests that productivity in the work-from-home environment was at least equal to what we were seeing prior to that with the in-office environment.

I'll hand it over to our witness.

[Jean-François Fleury, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Directions and Digital Solutions, Treasury Board Secretariat]

The rationale is to maximize the benefits of the presence in the workplace and to bring fairness and consistency across the public service. It is a minor calibration from two to three days to three days. We're still in a hybrid model; therefore, we respect and understand the benefits of off-site work. We also recognize that some organizations are already at three, and many employees have been working five days on site since the beginning of the pandemic.

While recognizing the off-site benefits—work-life balance, completing individual tasks, time management—it's also important to recalibrate to really reap the benefits of on-site presence as well. Human connection matters. There is peer learning from each other; the onboarding of new employees who are not only new to the public service but new to teams; collision conversations; impromptu idea-sharing; and team building. We feel that human connections are essential to strengthen the public service as an organization, its values and its culture.

The move is also very consistent with many provinces and territories. There are more flexible models out there, but this is bringing us closer to the trend. We have been working with PSPC to ensure that it aligns with its 10-year strategy of reducing the footprint by 50%. The key to that is to ensure that there is unallocated seating and that the model moves from an experimental model to one that is a bit more structured.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

You mentioned collaborating with PSPC. The other organization that it seems like the government didn't collaborate enough with is PSAC. It's quite upset by this whole mandate.

Can you describe your consultation with the public sector unions in the lead up to this mandate?

[Jean-François Fleury]

At the last collective agreement, there was a letter of agreement that was signed outside of the collective agreement to review the telework directive and to establish review panels in organizations. We have had several meetings with bargaining agents to review the telework directive, which is how you actually do telework. Those meetings have taken place.

In terms of the location of work, it is and remains an exclusive management right. Therefore, on the move from two to three days, there was no consultation there. We informed the unions, as we informed many groups within the public service, of the change in direction.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I understand that there are benefits to working in the office. For some personality types, it's a preferable work environment; others have more productivity in a remote work environment. One thing that seems clearly obvious is that if employees are disgruntled, their productivity goes down. It seems like the way that this directive has been handled by management has resulted in a lot of employees feeling like they're not valued, like the employer doesn't take the needs of their work environment seriously.

How is the public service going to manage that impact?

We've heard from PSAC that it's going to fight this. I'm getting emails from my constituents saying that the way that it's being rolled out in individual offices is deeply problematic. What's the strategy from here on in to get to a place where you're actually reaping the benefits of the return to the office?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I am afraid there's no time left for an answer. Perhaps in your next round or perhaps in a plan in writing to us....

Mrs. Block, please, for five minutes.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair,.

Thank you to our witnesses for being here today.

Ms. Boudreau, I echo my colleagues' congratulations to you on your new appointment and wish you well.

The government made a commitment to implement a trust and transparency strategy and recently released an update in the “Manager's Guide”, with four key updates. The guide refers to “key considerations when procuring professional services”.

The first update is that managers should “monitor and document the delivery of services and ensure that obligations under the contract are met, including by subcontractors, prior to issuing of payment”. In plain language, this means that managers should make sure that work is completed before paying.

Was it a common practice to pay for work and to pay contractors without that work being completed?

[Samantha Tattersall, Assistant Comptroller General, Acquired Services and Assets Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat]

Thank you for the question.

I wouldn't say that it was a common practice.

Let me just frame that there's the "Manager's Guide", and then last week we announced mandatory procedures. Really, this is about getting back to basics and having good hygiene when we do our procurement. In procurement, there's the contracting authority; so you hear a lot about procurement officers, but managers who are business owners also have accountabilities and responsibilities. What we're trying to do, in plain language, is make them sure that they're aware. With the mandatory procedure, we're embedding it now into the approval process. It's embedded into the structures.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thank you. I appreciate your framing that for me.

I have five minutes, so a really concise answer is really appreciated going forward.

In plain language, you needed to tell those who were paying contractors that the work actually has to be done before you pay pay them.

[Samantha Tattersall]

It was putting in plain language what is already required.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Okay. Thank you.

The second update was that managers should “exercise due diligence to maintain the integrity of a procurement”, ensuring that “obligations under the contract are met, including by subcontractors, prior to issuing payment”. Was it common practice before this for managers to not monitor conflicts of interest?

[Samantha Tattersall]

I would say that I couldn't answer that question. I don't monitor all contracts, but I would say that we wrote it so that people were clear, not that we thought everybody was not doing it. That's really important.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thank you very much.

I'm going to move on to another part of the strategy that was announced. Your department announced its strategy, which is meant to provide “better access to government data” and improve “trust in federal institutions”.

In fact, Minister Anand stated last week, on May 29:

As we continue to face an unprecedented surge in misinformation and disinformation, our government remains committed to the values of openness and transparency.

Yet, there is a shortfall or a reduction in the Integrity Commissioner's budget. What steps have been taken to sort out that $700,000 budget shortfall for that office? How does reducing that budget align with your limiting the budget of the independent officer that ensures federal institutions are following the law?