Evidence of meeting #127 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was emails.
A video is available from Parliament.
7:05 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Will you provide the current invoice to committee as well, what he or she is charging you for today's appearance?
7:05 p.m.
Chief Technology Officer of the Government of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
I can provide that information.
7:05 p.m.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Thank you.
Mr. Doan, do you believe the text that is being referred to and was sent to us is the text that you were engaged in conservation with Mr. MacDonald...?
7:05 p.m.
Chief Technology Officer of the Government of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
I do not recall, so that's why I say “alleged”. I do not recall.
I'm not denying that these occurred. As I said, I at the time had a good relationship with Mr. MacDonald, and we would have been texting a lot. I do not recall a text that I sent two years or over two years ago. I send hundreds of texts a day.
7:05 p.m.
Liberal
7:05 p.m.
Chief Technology Officer of the Government of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
It is possible.
7:05 p.m.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Okay.
Assuming that that possibility exists, you had referred to the ministers at that time.
You did not specifically name any minister, but let me be very specific. At any time, directly or indirectly, did Minister Mendicino at that time—and MP Marco Mendicino now—influence or ask you to throw anybody under the bus or make a decision on any of the solutions that CBSA was going through? Just a yes or a no.
7:10 p.m.
Chief Technology Officer of the Government of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
No.
7:10 p.m.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
No. Thank you.
I just want to clarify, because we've already asked for the production of documents. You said the folder that you held, you uploaded into the network, and then you downloaded it, and it was during the download that it was corrupted, and that issue was resolved. Therefore, that folder is available on the network, and we are asking for the emails in that folder to be made available, correct?
7:10 p.m.
Chief Technology Officer of the Government of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
I would like to clarify one point.
I do not know whether it was resolved or the agency was able to recover the files when it examined the process.
That is the only clarification I wanted to make.
7:10 p.m.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Okay, but on the likelihood of somebody uploading a file from their personal laptop—sorry, from their work laptop into the network—that file must be available because there was no corruption happening at that time.
7:10 p.m.
Chief Technology Officer of the Government of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Yes, that would be correct in our normal understanding.
7:10 p.m.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Okay.
There was no ministerial intervention, you acknowledge the possibility of having had that conversation with Mr. MacDonald and, also, you've guided us to a source so that we could look at those emails.
You don't recall how many there are. Apparently, other witnesses have made claims, but as soon as we look at the files, we'll be able to understand the nature of the content as well as the numbers, correct?
7:10 p.m.
Chief Technology Officer of the Government of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Yes, and even further than that, an ATIP into the agency would reveal...even if there were emails that were no longer available on my laptop, an ATIP would reveal all emails that I would have sent and received to anybody at the agency or any other department.
7:10 p.m.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Okay. [Inaudible—Editor] You're asking us indirectly to do an ATIP for that. Okay—got the message.
Now, going back and looking at the decision that was made for GC Strategies for ArriveCAN, you also referred to the statement of facts, to Mr. MacDonald and Mr. Utano, and the fact that they had claimed they were involved in making that decision, correct?
7:10 p.m.
Chief Technology Officer of the Government of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
That is from the affidavit from the Federal Court. In the same Federal Court case, there was a decision. At paragraph 6 of their decision, the court noted that Mr. Utano and Mr. MacDonald were responsible for the initial execution and technical delivery of the ArriveCAN application. That was part of the court's recent decision.
7:10 p.m.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
With about 30 seconds to go, do you believe that the reason that Mr. Utano and Mr. MacDonald were trying to block the release of those documents was because of the nature of the testimony they had provided?
7:10 p.m.
Chief Technology Officer of the Government of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
I participated in every single investigation, review and audit that I was asked to because I have nothing to hide. I have not tried to stop any investigation, review or audit, and I don't understand, or I'm not making any assumptions as to why somebody would want to stop an investigation if they had nothing to hide.
7:10 p.m.
Conservative
7:10 p.m.
Bloc
Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Doan, I was thinking again about what you said earlier today. Am I mistaken in thinking that establishing strategies to meet needs and supervising the Canada Border Services Agency's systems and tools were the most interesting parts of your work, in personal terms, and this was what you preferred to do?
7:10 p.m.
Chief Technology Officer of the Government of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Yes, that is something I like doing, me being a technologist.
To simplify things, for people who are not familiar with the technology, I would say that I like using my knowledge to solve business-related problems. I also like the operational aspect: trying to solve technical problems, such as problems that might relate to customs.
7:10 p.m.
Bloc
Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Right.
Have you taken courses on process management or human resources management?
7:10 p.m.
Chief Technology Officer of the Government of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Yes, I have taken some.
New employees have quite a few courses to take, and employees who become executives have more courses to take in order to receive a delegation of powers, whether in financial management or in human resources.
I noted a recommendation made in the report of the Office of the Auditor General of Canada regarding the management of the Canada Border Services Agency. The recommendation proposes that courses on procurement and contracting be made mandatory for everyone, even the people who had done it in the past.
