Government Operations Committee on June 5th, 2024

[Minh Doan]

There were whiskey tastings and meetings at Lansdowne and other pubs. I've only learned of that recently as they came up in either The Globe and Mail or in committee. Mr. MacDonald did not disclose or ask, and that was something I've also seen in the OAG report. They did not ask for permission to attend these whiskey tastings or other meetings with, I believe, GC Strategies.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks very much. That ends our first round.

We're going to suspend for five minutes exactly.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We are back, everyone.

We're into round two. We will do this round, and then do another five-minute break.

We'll start with Mr. Brock for five minutes, please.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Mr. Doan, you'll agree with me that long before Mr. MacDonald and Mr. Utano stated emphatically that you had lied to committee not once but numerous times, you in fact were friends with Cameron MacDonald. Isn't that correct?

[Minh Doan]

I would consider him a very close colleague that I got along with.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Yes. I'm looking at a text exchange from October 24, 2022, between yourself and Cameron MacDonald, where you're joking around talking about your upcoming appearance at committee. This was your first appearance. You were joking around saying:

My first line at cttee next week

Tina made me do it

My second line

Cameron MacDonald (Mac not Mc Mr. Speaker) did everything behind my back

You were joking. Mr. MacDonald knew you were joking. Mr. MacDonald said:

This entire thing is brutal.

Then you stated something very interesting. You said:

My issue isn't talking

I'm rather good at running my mouth

Now, I take that to mean, “I'm pretty good at telling tall tales.” I would suggest very strongly that's precisely what you have done in the last two committee appearances, and that's what you're starting to do right now. You are very good at telling lies, Mr. Doan.

Furthermore, you continue, and Mr. MacDonald said in response:

Haha. Oh, I wasn't worried.

You then said:

My issue is what I want to say vs what I can say

[Can't] throw phac under the bus

[Can't] throw Ministers under the bus

It's hard to explain the complexity and cost of this thing without doing that

There are several questions, Mr. Doan, starting with PHAC. Who at PHAC are you trying to protect?

[Minh Doan]

First of all, I do not recall those exchanges. I'm not questioning them. I don't recall exchanges I sent two years ago; I send hundreds of texts a day. In terms of protecting anybody, there is nobody to protect. In terms of the question of throwing people under the bus, PHAC were the business owners. They defined the requirements. I think it was well stated here that there are, to memory, over 80 OICs. Those were not CBSA OICs. We had to react. We were working around the clock to meet the requirements—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Doan. I only have five minutes. I'm reclaiming my time.

To your point that you don't recall, these text messages are probably still on your phone, unless, of course, they mysteriously got deleted as well.

I encourage you to review your phone messages from just over a year and a half ago—“[Can't] throw Ministers under the bus”. We already know about the difficulties you had with Minister Mendicino, who wanted someone's “head on a platter”, and you threatened to throw Mr. MacDonald under the bus. Are you still protecting Minister Mendicino?

[Minh Doan]

Those are allegations and not facts, and they're allegations from an individual—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Mr. Doan, it's a very straightforward question. Are you still protecting Minister Mendicino, now known as MP Marco Mendicino, yes or no?

[Minh Doan]

No, I have no reason to protect him.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Then why would you say that emphatically in a text message? Why would you give the illusion that you want to say more, but you can't?

[Minh Doan]

No, the question—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

You swore to tell the truth. You affirmed to tell the truth, not only today but on your last appearance. You can't have it both ways. You can't just give us some of the evidence and hold back relevant details. Your affirmation is to give us the straight goods, Mr. Doan. No one forced you to write these text messages. This came from you.

What is it you really wanted to say, but you felt compelled that you couldn't?

[Minh Doan]

You're asking—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Who are you protecting, and what are you hiding, Mr. Doan? That is the relevant question. What are you hiding?

[Minh Doan]

Mr. Chair, I'm trying to answer the member's question.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

What are you hiding?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

You have about 10 seconds.

[Minh Doan]

I have nothing to hide. I have nobody to protect. It was a very stressful and difficult time. We were responding to the pandemic and the needs of PHAC and others.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you, gentlemen.

Mr. Bains, go ahead, please.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Doan, for joining us today.

I'm just still a little bit confused about the files that were corrupted.

How many did you say were corrupted?

[Minh Doan]

In terms of what we talked about here specifically, it would have been one file, which is called a PST file.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

It was one single file.

What was on there?

[Minh Doan]

A PST file is used by Outlook to store emails and other things.