Evidence of meeting #127 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was emails.
A video is available from Parliament.
June 5th, 2024 / 6:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
We're actually past time, but I thought it was important that we let Mr. Doan finish that because it was very important.
We're now going to take our 10-minute suspension, and we'll be back in 10 minutes.
7 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
We are back in session. Thank you, everyone, for your patience.
We're starting with Mr. Brock, for five minutes, and then we'll have Mr. Jowhari.
Go ahead, Mr. Brock.
7 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Thank you, Chair.
I'm going back to text messages, Mr. Doan, from October 2022. The text messages say, “I'm rather good at running my mouth”, “My issue is what I want to say vs what I can say”, and “I have to stay in my lane”.
In my opening round with you, sir, I opined what a literal interpretation would be and what I believe most Canadians would take from that text exchange. I will give you a little bit of latitude, sir, to explain yourself. Specifically, I'd like an explanation of what you want to say versus what you can say. What did you mean by that, sir, in your text exchange with Mr. MacDonald?
7 p.m.
Chief Technology Officer of the Government of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
I don't remember that text exchange, again, and I wonder why Mr. MacDonald would still have that text with him after leaving the agency. Having said that, what I—
7 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
If I could stop you, with respect, the issue is not whether you recall it. The issue is not why you would ask why Mr. MacDonald would retain it. That wasn't the question.
These are your text messages. It is a snapshot in time. One would have thought these were pressing issues that would still be germane on your mind. I appreciate that you have health issues, but clearly, you have a lawyer, so you prepared for this meeting.
Correct me if I'm wrong. Correct Canadians if they're wrong. The interpretation is that you cannot be honest with this committee because you're being held back from telling us the truth.
Let me help you. Who was directing you not to give the committee the full truth and nothing but the truth? You were the vice-president at the time. Would it have been Mr. Ossowski or Ms. O'Gorman?
7:05 p.m.
Chief Technology Officer of the Government of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Nobody was directing me to not be truthful.
In terms of saying what I want to say, as I want to do here, I stick to the facts. I don't conjecture. I don't give opinions. I'm not here to give opinions.
These are alleged texts, I must say. I don't have these texts. These are allegedly from the same individual.
7:05 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Sir, let me stop you right there. Don't go there. Don't suggest for one minute that these are fabricated text messages. By doing so, sir, you are now impugning the integrity and the character of the source of this information.
If you have an issue with this, my suggestion is that you go back to your phone and that you scroll back to your communications with Mr. MacDonald. Furthermore, if that is gone, talk to your service provider. Service providers retain up to 10 years' worth of text messages.
With respect, don't go there. Don't use the word “alleged”. These are your words, and I've given you the opportunity to explain yourself.
I'll ask one further time. Why did you say you could not give us the full goods?
7:05 p.m.
Chief Technology Officer of the Government of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
I did not say that I could not give you the full goods.
With respect, Mr. Chair, the same individual has taken very strong liberties of impugning my reputation and going so far as saying that I faked a heart attack. My apologies if I do take offence to allegations because there have been many allegations made against me, and that—
7:05 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Mr. Doan, I'm moving on.
You have counsel with you. You've indicated that you're not under any investigation. You've indicated that you're not under internal investigation. You're not under police investigation. Why do you have a lawyer with you?
7:05 p.m.
Chief Technology Officer of the Government of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
I believe everybody is allowed counsel. I believe other witnesses who have appeared here have had counsel as well.
Given the harm that's already been done to my reputation, both here and on social media, I think it's wise for me—
7:05 p.m.
Conservative
7:05 p.m.
Chief Technology Officer of the Government of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Yes, they are.
7:05 p.m.
Conservative
7:05 p.m.
Chief Technology Officer of the Government of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
I'm not done, so I have not submitted anything.
7:05 p.m.
Chief Technology Officer of the Government of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
I've submitted bills for previous attendances, but not for this one.
7:05 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
How much has your legal counsel billed for his or her services in assisting you? Give just the number, please.
7:05 p.m.
Chief Technology Officer of the Government of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
The last one was $5,000.
7:05 p.m.
Chief Technology Officer of the Government of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Approximately. I can get the specific number and invoice.
7:05 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
That was for a two-hour appearance. Okay.
What about the first invoice?
7:05 p.m.
Chief Technology Officer of the Government of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
It would be, approximately, less than $5,000. I can get that invoice as well.
7:05 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Maybe $4,000?
Will you provide both invoices to committee?
7:05 p.m.
Chief Technology Officer of the Government of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
I certainly can—
