Government Operations Committee on June 19th, 2024

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I would like to refute the premise of the question, Mr. Chair.

There is no such initiative under way—what my honourable colleague is mentioning. In fact, it is quite preposterous that you are mentioning that in this committee when I am here to testify about the work of the Treasury Board of Canada.

Thank you.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Sousa, please go ahead.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you, Minister, for being here.

Can we just touch upon some of what was just discussed: about your refocusing government spending initiative and how it's complementary to these supplementary estimates?

Basically, is this initiative cutting programs and services to Canadians, or can it ensure growth in services and fiscal prudence as we go forward?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I do want to highlight further the work that we are doing on refocusing government spending.

Phase one of that initiative was outlined in budget 2023, and as soon as I became the President of the Treasury Board, I undertook that initiative, which is to refocus government spending towards our government's priorities.

In the supplementary estimates (B) tabled last fall, we began to report on the first block of those savings, with reductions of $500 million, as well as further reductions in the main estimates. That $500 million was broken down into reductions in outsourcing or third party contracting of $350 million and of $150 million on executive travel. Then again, in the main estimates, I provided further information relating to the way in which we were refocusing spending towards our government's priorities.

Those two phases are going to deliver on the government's commitment to refocus $15.8 billion over five years and $4.8 billion every year thereafter.

Phase two of the refocusing government spending initiative was outlined in this year's budget. You will see us taking further initiatives to ensure the prudent management of taxpayer dollars.

Thank you.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you.

In describing the process and the creation of these supplementary estimates, you and your department have generated these changes to government spending.

One of the things we talk about in this committee that's very critical to us is value for money, right? It's value for money for taxpayers and program delivery.

Can you describe that position?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Value for money is obviously extremely important to everything we do at the Treasury Board, from overseeing $450 billion of expenditures every year to ensuring that we are cutting red tape. That will include ensuring that Bill S-6 goes through committee and hopefully, again, gets passed by the House on third reading.

The financial information in the estimates is presented to support an appropriation bill that seeks parliamentary approval for expenditures that will be incurred throughout the year. Through this supply bill, the government requests Parliament's approval of the planned spending proposals that are detailed in the estimates.

As I briefly outlined in my remarks, the supplementary estimates (A) 2024-25 present $12.7 billion in incremental spending, and that includes $11.2 billion in new voted spending and $1.5 billion in forecasted statutory budgetary expenditures.

I want to highlight that the majority of that funding is through voted expenditures. We will have the opportunity to vote on this funding in the House of Commons.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

In recent months, you've also made announcements with regard to improving Canada's information regime.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

You and the department have made a series of announcements in recent months.

Could you touch upon how you've worked to improve Canada's information regime through these recent announcements?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Most definitely.

The information regime that you're referring to is referred to as our trust and transparency strategy. With that initiative, we are aiming to make more transparent some of the documents of the federal government. You will see in the Access to Information Act the ability for individuals to have reference to historical records. What I did in that announcement is to place time periods around certain discretionary exemptions within the statute so that public servants can have reference to those time periods before they provide those documents to the general public or on request for a freedom of information—

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

In your opening remarks, you touched upon the indigenous community and how some of the prime objectives are about including settlements for indigenous peoples and services.

Can you share any details on these objectives and how these new fundings will help in their execution?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Most definitely.

As you know, our government is very focused on ensuring that we walk the path of reconciliation as laid out in the Truth and Reconciliation Commission report. The new voted spending is for settlements addressing past grievances and historic harms committed against indigenous peoples. There is $1.5 billion for federal Indian Day Schools and Indian Residential Schools Day Scholars settlements, $769 million for water and wastewater treatment, and $633 million for First Nations Child and Family Services.

I could go on, but there are a number of initiatives voted on in the supplementary (A)s.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Ms. Vignola, please go ahead.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Madam Anand, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for being with us today.

My first question is about the plan to implement the modernized version of the Official Languages Act and the $2.4 million earmarked for it under 1A.

If my math is right, $2.4 million for approximately nine million francophones across Canada represents barely 27¢ per francophone. What's more, almost a quarter of that $2.4 million will go to Quebec's 600,000 or 700,000 anglophones. That's still only 27¢ per person.

Is that enough to really get this program right?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Thank you for your question.

I'd like to start by saying that this is not the only amount we're going to allocate to the two official languages.

We need to continue supporting both official languages. All institutions also need to have an obligation to comply with the rules. That's why this week I announced the part VII Official Languages Accountability and Reporting Framework contained in Bill C‑13. Under this framework, we have an obligation to support official languages in public services.

The accountability and reporting framework makes it very clear that our government takes the obligation to support both official languages very seriously. One of the key elements of the act requires us to ensure that Canadians can communicate with federal institutions and take advantage of their services in the language of their choice.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

As an aside, I know a few francophones in Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean who have to extend their working hours so they can answer questions asked in English by people from other provinces. I wonder how many people from other provinces are hired to answer francophones from Quebec outside normal working hours, but that's not the point.

We're seeing cuts in government departments. The public service has grown by over 40%, but services are not keeping pace. Federal employees, according to the information we receive, are less and less motivated. Sometimes, some even feel that their work is pointless, while customers, the public, feel that federal services related to passports or customs, for example, are not good.

How is it possible to reconcile the skyrocketing number of employees, the decline in the perceived quality of services and, at the same time, the promise to cut spending ever so slightly?

Where are those cuts going to happen, in the end?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Thank you for the question.

First of all, if you have been made aware of such situations in institutions, please give me some examples, as I would like to discuss these with the officials from my department who are here with me. As I said, we take this obligation very seriously.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Anand.

I tell you quite openly and sincerely, if I were to discuss this directly with you, it would have to be behind closed doors. The reason for that is because of the excessively negative atmosphere and culture where any civil servant who speaks openly about what's happening, particularly among the francophones, loses their job or is literally harassed by their superiors.

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

That's why we need to have these conversations. If you wanted to discuss this situation with me, I will listen. We need to understand the context in terms of the framework and part VII of the Official Languages Act. It's my duty to hear these stories and to discuss them with the officials from my department who are with me this afternoon.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you.

Just quickly—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

You have 25 seconds.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

—in recent weeks, we've seen WestJet brushing off customers who request services in French, threatening to take legal action against them. Canada Post hires unilingual anglophones in largely francophone municipalities.

When will bilingualism be an obligation elsewhere in Canada, and not just among francophones? When will the government actually stop encouraging the anglicization of Quebec?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Give a brief answer, if you can. If not, let me know and we'll save it for the next intervention.

Thanks.

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

As I said, all institutions have an obligation to follow the rules and offer services in both official languages.