Government Operations Committee on June 19th, 2024

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you.

Mr. Green, again, welcome back.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I reminisced about being back at this committee. Of course, I also served on the public accounts committee.

I'm going to have a question for you that's fairly straightforward. I'm hoping to get a straightforward answer and perhaps even a commitment out of you here today.

Minister, the Canadian Audit and Accountability Foundation is dedicated to advancing public sector performance audit, oversight and accountability in Canada and abroad. The foundation's work is internationally renowned and supports elected officials to build capacity, share knowledge and collaborate on issues of mutual interest of government oversight. The impact of their work increases government transparency and accountability and improves government operations, which is an important way to increase public confidence in government. In fact, as a member of the public accounts committee, I had the pleasure of taking their training, and I found it invaluable.

The CAAF has been engaged with your government for more than two years to seek funding that will allow it to continue its work, but has yet to receive a response. Unfortunately, it's my understanding that if the funding commitment isn't received by the end of the month, the CAAF will have to cease domestic programming. Now, you'll know that they also go to our provincial counterparts to provide support there. The modest funding request from the CAAF would go a long way to improving government oversight for years to come. There's wide support on the ongoing work of CAAF and their request for federal funding. This is from the Canadian Council of Public Accounts Committees, which represents legislative staff from federal, provincial and territorial public accounts committees across Canada. They passed a resolution asking for federal funding.

The Standing Committee on Public Accounts passed a motion recommending that the Government of Canada, specifically the President of the Treasury Board, review the work of the Canada Audit and Accountability Foundation and take steps to provide adequate and stable funding for the capacity-building program as part of the legislative oversight bodies.

This might be one of the most non-partisan questions I've had all session because there is, in fact, wide support from Liberal, Conservative and New Democrat chairs of the public accounts committees, and of course, Bloc members who would be involved in some of the earlier reports as well.

Minister, can you commit today to providing federal funding for the Canadian Audit and Accountability Foundation to ensure that they can continue their important work by supporting legislators and improving government oversight across the country?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I recall, from previous committee appearances, discussing the CAAF and their important work. I'd like to thank them for this work. I do believe in the usefulness of this work, and I've tasked my officials to investigate the funding request that is before us. I would ask Mr. Matthews if he could elaborate on the work that he is doing with the department to further support the CAAF.

[Bill Matthews, Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat]

Certainly, Minister.

In terms of a quick update, we are aware of the financial situation facing the organization. We've had some preliminary discussions. The organization does already receive funding from Global Affairs Canada, and there are possibilities of funding from other departments and programs. That's to be investigated. I will be having a conversation with senior leadership with the organization in the days to come and hope to work with them to find a solution on this.

At present, a key point for me here is that Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat does not fund this organization, so we are working with other departments and other programs where there may be a better fit to potentially get funding.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

You're aware that by the end of the month they might cease to exist in their ability to provide programming?

[Bill Matthews]

I'm aware there's a board meeting coming up that's very important, and that is one of the dates that is driving this.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Will you have an answer to them before the board meeting?

[Bill Matthews]

We will be having discussions with their leadership team before the meeting. I can't give you a definitive answer on how those will go at this stage.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Minister, you would acknowledge the function of public accounts as one of the few non-partisan spaces to be able to provide oversight, the need for parliamentary training on that function, and why it's important to remain quasi non-partisan.

What comment do you have to the board members who will be meeting in advance of the dire situation they're in?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

The very fact that I've tasked my officials, as ministers, to look into this issue, to examine across government what we can do and to speak with the leadership before that board meeting, should underline to you how seriously I take the work of the CAAF, and there will be more to follow from my officials.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I'll leave that with you in good faith and hope that you can recognize the importance of that work, not only federally but at the other levels of government.

With that being said, Mr. Chair, I'm going to move a motion with the remainder of my time. Then I will speak to the motion as procedurally correct.

That, as per the usual practice of House of Commons standing committees, the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates shall not meet during Parliament’s summer recess unless the requirements of s.106(4) of the Standing Orders are met.

This has been already provided as a notice of motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We're not in committee business, so you cannot move the motion.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

It's already been put as a notice of motion—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

It was not in time. We adjourned the debate.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

However, I already moved it, so it's alive. It's completely in order.

I've moved it. You guys filibustered it. It's already on the table.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

You can't just reintroduce it.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I'm going to challenge your decision then, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

You can have the clerk weigh in as well if you wish, if you don't believe me.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I'll just challenge your decision right now. We can skip the clerk.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

We're going to have the clerk weigh in.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I don't need the clerk. We can just challenge the decision.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Well, the rest of us do—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I still have the floor, thank you.

I'm challenging your decision.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Genuis.