Evidence of meeting #134 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was property.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Assistant Comptroller General, Acquired Services and Assets Sector, Office of the Comptroller General, Treasury Board Secretariat
GAC would be the custodian for the real property, and they could either acquire it or it could be Crown-leased when they have it.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
I know that you spoke about the real property holdings of GAC. I would appreciate it if you would table that list you referenced to the committee.
Assistant Comptroller General, Acquired Services and Assets Sector, Office of the Comptroller General, Treasury Board Secretariat
I asked how many. I think GAC officials.... I would feel more comfortable if you got it directly from the department and their holdings.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
Sure. I will do that tomorrow for sure.
Who writes the guidelines for real property purchases on behalf of the Government of Canada?
Assistant Comptroller General, Acquired Services and Assets Sector, Office of the Comptroller General, Treasury Board Secretariat
We have a Treasury Board policy that sets the framework, and then within that there's a requirement for each custodian department—GAC being the custodian department—to have a senior designated official who is appointed responsible for the management of real property within GAC, and they would have a real property management framework they're responsible for that would set out how things are done within GAC.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
It's said that "The Treasury Board Secretariat role in procurement includes developing, implementing, monitoring and renewing procurement-related policies and instruments...it also evaluates business proposals, monitors bidding processes and ensures compliance with policies and standards."
What we've heard today is that you only do that once a purchase or an acquisition is over $10 million. Is that correct?
Assistant Comptroller General, Acquired Services and Assets Sector, Office of the Comptroller General, Treasury Board Secretariat
First, when we talk about real property acquisition, it's the directive on the management of real property that applies, not the procurement policy, so as I said in my opening remarks, we set the administrative framework and then if an acquisition or a disposition is over the limits that a department has, it would come to Treasury Board for authority.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
Thank you.
Where do the departments get the funding for these types of purchases? Is that budgeted for in the annual budget of the Government of Canada?
Assistant Comptroller General, Acquired Services and Assets Sector, Office of the Comptroller General, Treasury Board Secretariat
That's a great question. Most custodians will have a capital budget, and that is where they get the funding for investments in real property.
For example, GAC's vote 5 capital budget for 2024-25 is $192 million, so they have a capital budget that is responsible for those expenditures, which is then voted on through the estimates process.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
They have this pool of money that's provided to them in the budget. Through the estimates process, do they provide a vote highlighting what they are actually spending this money on?
Assistant Comptroller General, Acquired Services and Assets Sector, Office of the Comptroller General, Treasury Board Secretariat
It would be considered A-base funding. They have so many real property assets that they have A-base funding to help manage all of those assets. That's in their vote 5, and it would be in their estimates.
Liberal
Jenica Atwin Liberal Fredericton, NB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I thank everyone for joining us today.
I'm joining from beautiful Fredericton, New Brunswick. Our average home price here is about $297,000, so I want to help Canadians understand this, and I want to understand this as a member of Parliament.
Maybe we can start at the beginning.
Mr. Quinlan, perhaps this is more for GAC officials, but what is this residence used for? Mr. Barrett suggested that it's for the sole, exclusive use of our one representative, but what is this residence actually used for?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Real Property Services, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would agree with the premise in the question. This is a question for GAC officials. PSPC is not the appropriate department to answer that.
Liberal
Assistant Comptroller General, Acquired Services and Assets Sector, Office of the Comptroller General, Treasury Board Secretariat
No. GAC sets out the mission requirements for that official residence. It would be best positioned to respond.
Liberal
Jenica Atwin Liberal Fredericton, NB
Okay.
I understand the previous property has an estimated value of $13 million. Is that correct?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Real Property Services, Department of Public Works and Government Services
That could be confirmed through the interim chief appraiser, Madame Bouchard, but that is also my understanding.
Madame Bouchard.
Acting Chief Appraiser of Canada, Real Property Services, Department of Public Works and Government Services
In fact, the $14 million that I think you've seen is the current listed price.
Liberal
Jenica Atwin Liberal Fredericton, NB
Okay. Thank you.
Perhaps Madame Bouchard—or anyone—can speak to the key differences between this residence and the previous one, which we've now offloaded to purchase this new one.
Acting Chief Appraiser of Canada, Real Property Services, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Yes, I can briefly tell you about that.
Of course, the focus of today's discussion is the transaction involving the property at 111 West 57th Street. I don't have much information about the other appraisal report. As I mentioned earlier, because the property is currently on the market, I have to be a little cautious about disclosing information on the property appraisal.
However, I can tell you that the residence currently for sale has more square footage than the one in question today. The Park Avenue residence has better views than the recently purchased property. It's on the 12th floor of a 17-storey building used exclusively for residential purposes, and it's located on the Upper East Side, a predominantly residential neighbourhood considered quite desirable.
On the other hand, the property purchased on West 57th Street is located in the Steinway Tower, a heritage building with an addition. The property in question is located on the 11th floor of this addition, which is the first of the building's residential floors. All of the lower floors are used for non-residential purposes. The top part of this building is the famous skyscraper that's now a feature of the New York City landscape.
Essentially, I would say that what characterizes or differentiates the two properties is their location inside their building, the buildings' location in the city, and their square footage and views.
Liberal
Jenica Atwin Liberal Fredericton, NB
Thank you very much.
I'm hearing a lot about location and, certainly, more of an ideal place for some of the work that is done and conducted in that residence.
I've come to understand that there were also some issues with code. Can anyone speak to the previous residence not being up to code or accessibility standards? Is one part of the conversation that would have gone into this new acquisition around accessibility or meeting codes?
Can you speak to why we have this new residence?
