Government Operations Committee on Aug. 20th, 2024

[Amélie Bouchard]

Are you asking me who makes the decision on setting the asking price?

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Yes, exactly.

[Amélie Bouchard]

In this particular case, I would suggest that you ask GAC that question.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

This is the problem. The government wants to trumpet the asking price as if it means something but ignore the appraiser who appraised it. That's completely separate. We don't even know who's setting the asking price.

Sorry, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We are out of time.

Ms. Bouchard, a very clear question was asked of you. If you do not know who set the price, please just say “I do not know”, but if you do know who set the price, as Mr. Genuis was asking, I would ask you to present that answer to us.

[Amélie Bouchard]

I don't know who set the price, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Van Bynen, welcome to OGGO.

You have five minutes, please.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As a 30-year banker, I think what's important throughout all of this is to ensure that the taxpayers have received real value in the transaction.

My first question, then, is for Mr. Quinlan.

Can you explain the role the chief appraiser plays in the Treasury Board Secretariat's directive on the management of real property?

[Mark Quinlan]

For the transaction in question, given that the amount exceeded the $500,000 limit, the custodial department was obliged to request an appraisal in accordance with the Treasury Board directive. The department exercised its role in that context.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you.

In this situation, how was the third party appraiser chosen, and what are the prerequisites that need to be met for an approved third party appraiser to act on behalf of the Government of Canada?

[Mark Quinlan]

I thank the member for his question.

Appraisers have to be certified in the jurisdiction concerned. As I understand it, we were dealing with a reputable firm, known for the quality of its services, that we had used in the past.

I will let my colleague, Ms. Bouchard, expand on my answer.

[Amélie Bouchard]

Thank you, Mr. Quinlan.

The firm hired to prepare the appraisal report was National Valuation Consultants. It's an appraisal firm based in the United States with a number of regional offices. My office had dealt with this firm before.

In the case at hand, we selected this firm to prepare the appraisal report.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you.

Can you tell me what the factors are during the appraisal process? Are they standard for each appraisal, or are they dependent on each individual property?

[Amélie Bouchard]

We select appraisers or appraisal firms based on the nature of our assigned terms of reference and the property to be appraised, in other words, based on the purpose of the appraisal. The nature of the file, meaning the property to be appraised, also guides the choice of appraiser, firm or firms invited to submit a service proposal.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you.

As the real estate broker for the federal government, Public Services and Procurement Canada is responsible for the development and the management of these appraisal standards. As we're discussing an international property, do you know if any other countries have policies that align with PSPC's valuation guidelines, and are there any other countries that we could look to in order to possibly improve our current policy?

[Amélie Bouchard]

That's a great question.

Yes, we're always looking for ways to improve our practices. In fact, our practices are quite similar to what we see in other Commonwealth countries, like the United States, the United Kingdom, and Australia.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you.

When other departments purchase properties, is PSPC involved in the cost-benefit analysis? It's a question we've heard all too often today.

[Mark Quinlan]

The answer to that question, again, is to refer you to my colleague at the Treasury Board Secretariat.

PSPC is not responsible for those decisions. PSPC's responsibility is very targeted and very limited to the services Madame Bouchard provides in the context of applying the Treasury Board Secretariat's policy.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Okay.

Coming back to the directive on the management of—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Van Bynen, that is your five minutes, I'm afraid.

Colleagues, we are going to break for 10 minutes.

We will come back with Mrs. Vignola, and perhaps a solution to her earlier request.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We are back in session, everyone. Thank you for your patience. We'll go right to Mrs. Vignola for five minutes, and then we'll go over to Mr. Bachrach for five minutes.

Go ahead, Mrs. Vignola.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Tattersall, I imagine that Canada owns several hundred properties abroad, if not more.

Is there a point where renovation costs require an authorization request?

[Samantha Tattersall]

No. Transactions are only related to acquisition and disposition. However, if there was a major renovation project and the project exceeded their capacity, it could come to the board. In project management, it's not a dollar limit. It's based on an assessment of the department's risk and capacity and then the risk and capacity of the project.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Okay.

To your knowledge, do trade agreements between Canada and the United States cause any problems that might affect the cost of renovating Canada's official residences in New York or Washington? Do trade agreements and diplomatic relations between Canada and the United States create any obligations that result in higher costs?

I could ask GAC, but I wanted to ask you that question too.

Mr. Quinlan, if you want to answer, you're welcome to do so as well.

[Samantha Tattersall]

As you said, GAC would be better able to answer that question.