Government Operations Committee on Aug. 21st, 2024

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

You also mentioned that—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Be really brief, Mr. Brock.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I asked you questions about monthly property taxes, and I explained to you that you are lying to Canadians when you say the new property has fewer carrying costs than the old one.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

I have a point of order on the language.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I pointed that out to you.

I also heard, when a Liberal colleague was asking you questions, that you are tax-exempt pursuant to the Vienna Convention. Can you explain that, please?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We're out of time, but can you provide a very brief answer?

[Stéphane Cousineau]

Absolutely. Very quickly, the new property is definitely cheaper because of that. We will be tax-exempt on the new condo because of that Vienna convention. Absolutely.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Kusmierczyk, go ahead, please.

There we go. We can hear you now.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Chair, I have just a quick point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Hold on one moment, Mr. Kusmierczyk.

Go ahead, Mr. Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

At the end of my first round, I asked a number of specific questions, which you said the witness could follow up on in writing. I don't know that it was clarified, but I do just want to clarify, since we're getting towards the end here, that I would like a response in writing to my questions regarding various transfer taxes, mansion tax, etc., whether they apply and what the amounts would be. I just want to clarify that I do want the response to that to be provided in writing to the committee, as you had suggested.

Thanks.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you, Mr. Genuis.

Mr. Kusmierczyk, I'm starting the clock. Please go ahead sir.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

[Technical difficulty—Editor]

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Sir, we cannot hear you. I'm afraid we still have no volume, Mr. Kusmierczyk.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Can you hear me now?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

There you go.

That's perfect. Go ahead, sir. We'll start your five minutes.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Mr. Cousineau, for how long have you been in the federal public service?

[Stéphane Cousineau]

Mr. Chair, thank you for the question. I think my grey hair reflects that I've been in the public service for 30 years.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

For 30 years, so for pretty much your entire adult life you've been in the federal public service serving this country. Is that correct, sir?

[Stéphane Cousineau]

Give or take, yes, that's correct, absolutely.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Sir, I want to say thank you for your service to this country. I want to say thank you to all the public servants who serve our country with commitment and dedication and integrity and grace. I say that, sir, because I did not appreciate some of the comments by my Conservative colleagues that impugned your integrity and I want to just simply go on record to say that I thought that some of the comments by my Conservative colleagues were beneath this committee. They were disrespectful and they were undignified. I want to tell you, sir, that we appreciate, I appreciate, your decades of service to this country and I thank you for that.

You mentioned that this process was free of any political involvement. All procedures for procurement were followed by the book. You said this process was well documented. Indeed, as I understand it, an 80-page analysis was made on this decision. All the angles were looked at to make sure that Canadians got the best value for money.

You used the word “diligent”. You visited 21 properties. You revisited and looked at them. They were valued at anywhere between $8 million and $21 million, and you made sure that when you did make that decision, it was for a property on the lower end of that scale, close to the lowest, if not the lowest in terms of the cost.

You used the word “smart” for this investment and, indeed it was. You are saving taxpayers $3 million on renovations for the old property, saving taxpayers 50% in monthly costs, actually getting a return on investment for that property, because you'll be able to sell the old property for more money, so you'll actually put $4 million back in the bank of Canadian taxpayers. That's smart.

The new apartment is also more accessible than the old apartment was, and it is more functional. There's value added. You're going to be able to host more meetings, important meetings, in that space, meetings that are incredibly vital, especially to border communities like mine. Of the one trillion dollars in trade, one-third goes through my border in Windsor—Tecumseh.

Ninety per cent, sir, of what we manufacture is exported to the United States. Ninety per cent of what we grow, what the farmers in my community grow, gets exported to the United States. Therefore, I value the vital mission, the head of mission and the consulate in New York. It's an important part of our prosperity. The work you do is important to the prosperity of my community and border communities like mine in Windsor-Tecumseh.

I just want to say thank you, sir, for your decades of service to this country. I thank you for your integrity. I thank you for coming here, answering our questions, providing us insight into how the real property procurement process is managed. I thank you for the good work, for the smart investment. I do wish you good luck in the next round of negotiations with our American friends and partners when we do renegotiate important trade agreements like NAFTA. We know how important it is in Windsor-Tecumseh. We know that it set the table for $50 billion of investment in manufacturing in southwestern Ontario. We were able to revive manufacturing in southwestern Ontario. Billions were invested in Windsor, billions in the battery plant in St. Thomas, billions in Alliston, billions across the board, and that was because of the good work we were able to do in large part because of our trade missions.

There was complete revitalization and revival of the manufacturing and automotive sectors in southwestern Ontario. The work you do, sir, is important. It's vital. We appreciate it. We want to make sure you have all the resources you need to compete and to be able to deliver for Canadians not only good value but also good jobs and good investments.

I thank you, sir, for being here today.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

That's almost perfect timing, Mr. Kusmierczyk. Thanks very much.

Witnesses, just very quickly, we passed a motion in this committee that any documents requested, unless a date is set, are required within 21 calendar days, so I'd appreciate if you could follow that.

I just have a couple quick questions, if you don't mind.

The issue of the accessibility has come up several times, and I know it was in the notes as one of the justifications to purchase a new apartment. It also came up in commentary on several hundred buildings or residences we own around the world. Would you provide back in writing, within 21 days, how many other offices or residences are being sold or renovated because of the accessibility rules you've stated as justification for the New York purchase?

Ms. Carruthers, you didn't get much of a chance to talk today, so I'm going to give you an opportunity. In vote 5 from this year's main estimates, there was $182.5 million for capital. Was the purchase of this property in that $182.5 million? Was it part of the main estimates?

[Shirley Carruthers]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Chair.

In part of our $182 million in the budget in vote 5, we have our regular budget, which consists of about $69 million. That funding is allocated to our real property colleagues. As part of our departmental—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Was there a specific...? Because you have to justify that in your Treasury Board submission, was there a specific set-aside for the New York purchase? That's what I'm asking.

[Shirley Carruthers]

Yes, the funding for the New York purchase was part of that funding. That's correct.