Government Operations Committee on Aug. 27th, 2024

[Thomas Aabo]

It is move-in ready. It's a wonderful residence. It's in a heritage building.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

That's correct.

Did the government offer you any specifics on how they were going to spend 2 million taxpayer dollars for renovations at Park Avenue? Did they offer any details?

[Thomas Aabo]

We have not received any of that information.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Of course not. Did they even mention to you that part of the rationale for looking for a new location adjacent to Central Park on Billionaires' Row was the $2 million expected to renovate this luxurious condo?

[Thomas Aabo]

It was shared as part of the criteria, yes.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

They shared that with you?

[Thomas Aabo]

They shared that due to renovation costs, it made more sense financially to pursue another residence.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

All right.

They also told us at committee that it wasn't accessible, and when I drilled down on the government to see what that meant, they said they had to widen the entranceway to a bathroom. Couldn't that have easily been done at Park Avenue as well?

[Thomas Aabo]

It is sometimes difficult to do work in co-op buildings especially. It's part of the reason the cost is so high. It probably could have been done.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

It's not impossible, is it, sir? Answer, please.

[Thomas Aabo]

It's not impossible.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you, Mr. Brock.

Ms. Damoff, welcome to OGGO. Go ahead, please, for five minutes.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

It's a pleasure to be here with you today.

I want to read something from the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations from 1963. One of the articles says the role is as follows:

(b) furthering the development of commercial, economic, cultural and scientific relations between the sending State and the receiving State and otherwise promoting friendly relations between them in accordance with the provisions of the present Convention;

This consulate is responsible for $200 billion a year in business. Its role is to host events that promote Canada and businesses within Canada. I don't think any of us would sneeze at the $200 billion a year in business being generated through this consulate for Canada. That's a significant amount of money. To portray this residence as simply a residence, not as a residence and also a place of business, is misleading.

In 2021, we passed the Accessible Canada Act. Accessibility in these residences around the world should not have to be legislated. It should be the right thing to do. The fact is, we need to make these residences accessible to people with disabilities, and to ignore that fact.... I would argue that changing a doorway in a heritage building, especially in a condo building, is not as straightforward as the Conservative members would lead people to believe.

The Conservatives bought the previous residence under Mr. Diefenbaker in 1961. Oddly enough, two Conservative prime ministers, Prime Minister Mulroney and Prime Minister Harper, felt that it was important to have someone in New York conducting business for Canada. All of a sudden they're trying to portray this as a political decision, that somehow we're wasting taxpayers' dollars. I would say that at $200 billion a year, it's a good deal for Canadians to have someone there who is representing our interests. I would challenge any Conservative to ask why Mr. Mulroney, Mr. Harper and even Mr. Diefenbaker felt it was important to have this kind of representation in New York City.

I have a question for you, Mr. Miller. You talked about the need for appraisals and neutrality in valuations and the need to not have politics involved when you're doing that. Could you speak to that a bit, please?

[Jonathan Miller]

Thank you so much for the question. I'd be happy to.

In terms of neutrality in valuation, our firm, for example, does a tremendous amount of matrimonial work between parties. We're actually hired by both parties because we take the neutrality position very seriously. Neutrality essentially means that any appearance of non-neutrality.... The appearance of favouring one party over another is toxic or poison for the credibility of the final valuation.

We have found, in our experience, that it has resulted in much better outcomes for the parties if the person providing the valuation is not influenced or pressured by either party.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Mr. Aabo, I'll turn to you briefly, because I have only a minute left. We've heard some of the requirements that the Government of Canada needed for this property, including accessibility, but there are many other ones. I suspect that this narrows down the availability of residences significantly. Could you talk about that? Also, do you feel that the Government of Canada made a good decision in selling the previous property—it didn't meet those guidelines and required significant repairs—and in purchasing the property in New York City?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

You have about 20 seconds.

[Thomas Aabo]

Briefly, as we talked about earlier, there were 39 properties that we were able to find for consideration in the entire region or sphere of influence that the Canadian government decided to be in. Thirty-nine is not a lot among tens of thousands of apartments available in the area. It was not easy to find, but I think they were very successful in their final decision.

When it comes to whether or not it is a wise decision to dispose of the current residence, we believe now is a good time for that and are happy to participate in it. We think both decisions were smart moves driven by criteria already set by Global Affairs.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks very much.

Mrs. Vignola, please go ahead.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Miller, what puts ideas into people's heads is the name “Billionaires' Row”, which refers to the area where the apartment is located. However, I imagine other places in New York could also be called that. It may just be a more appealing name.

Is the area somewhat mixed, or is there really a greater concentration of people with substantial private wealth?

[Jonathan Miller]

The answer is, as I believe Mr. Aabo mentioned as well, that there's quite a diverse mix of residential properties in the area. It is primarily a commercial district that has seen an influx of development, especially after the financial crisis. We're talking about eight or nine supertalls that were constructed post [Technical difficulty—Editor]. Prior to that, it was not that type of property at all.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I guess if it had been called “Crappy Row”, nobody would have wanted to build houses in that area.

[Jonathan Miller]

The phrase “Billionaires' Row” is a marketing term, something that Manhattan or New York real estate is well known for. It's an aspirational name, but it does not reflect the majority of the housing stock in that location.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Miller and Mr. Aabo.

I'm done, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks very much.

Mr. Bachrach, go ahead, please.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have a question for Mr. Aabo.

You were fairly intimately involved in this transaction, advising Global Affairs, looking at other properties and talking to them about their requirements. At any point did you have any interaction with Mr. Clark, the consul general?