Government Operations Committee on Sept. 12th, 2024

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Chair, how much time do I have left? I think it's 45 seconds.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

You have about 30 seconds.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Okay.

Mr. Clark, very quickly, explain to me why some receptions will be held at the official residence rather than at the consulate. What is the advantage of one over the other?

[Thomas Clark]

That's a very good question. Allow me to explain it in English to speed things up.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Clark, please give a real brief explanation.

[Thomas Clark]

Diplomacy is never “or”. It's always “and”. I have a range of tools that I can use. The mission here is one. The residence is another. Travelling is another. You choose which is most appropriate for the moment and for the occasion.

In the residence, it is more intimate. It is more secure. A lot of the people we entertain there appreciate the security of the residence. Larger events may be best held in the mission, but as I said, it's not one or the other.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Clark, I apologize. I have to cut you off there, because we're quite a bit past our time. Thanks very much.

Mr. Bachrach, please go ahead, sir.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Clark, you referred to this communiqué that indicated that you did in fact have a role in the selection of the new apartment. Then you referred to the amendments thereto by Global Affairs officials.

For people who are following along and perhaps watching the webcast of this meeting, could you characterize, in your own words, the rationale for the amendments? That's for the folks who are watching.

[Thomas Clark]

Sure.

The memo, or the email, that you're referring to was simply wrong. These things happen. People get things wrong. All the other documents that you have point in the other direction. This is unfortunate. It was unfortunate for the person who wrote it because it was simply wrong. I mean, what can I tell you? It's not what happened.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

It's just hard to imagine someone writing a memo and including information that has absolutely no basis. I can't imagine, you know.... I'm thinking about officials who are writing these memos, and I'm struggling to understand why someone would put something in there when it's entirely non-factual. Do we know who wrote the memo? Who was responsible for that fairly grievous oversight?

[Thomas Clark]

Yes, we do. It's in the package. Nothing is redacted in that, by the way. Her name is Emily Nicholson. I have not ever met Emily Nicholson or spoken to Emily Nicholson, but I share with you the astonishment that something would be written that is so completely wrong.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Chair, perhaps it would be appropriate for the committee to invite Ms. Nicholson to appear as part of this study to provide, in her own words, her rationale for writing the original memo in the way that she did. If that's in order, I would make that a motion at this time. Maybe we can do it by unanimous consent.

(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We seem to have agreement with that. Leave it with me and the clerk.

Thanks, Mr. Bachrach. You have about five seconds.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I'll hand those seconds back to you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks, Mr. Bachrach.

We're now going to go to Mrs. Kusie for five minutes. After that, we're going to take a very short suspension so that we can do a voice check for Mr. Hardie, and then we'll continue with Mr. Hardie.

Go ahead, Mrs. Kusie.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Clark, it's very concerning because there are some inconsistencies in the timelines and the testimony that you are giving the committee today.

I'm just going to outline the first one that is very concerning to me, as well to as the committee.

You were appointed in February 2023. Then we see you in a motorcade on April 28, 2023, with the Prime Minister, the individual who does the appointments, and in that video, in the motorcade, you say that, in fact, the Prime Minister was over at your place the evening before—the residence—on the 27th. Then, lo and behold, Global Affairs Canada, which had put the project of a new residence on hold, all of a sudden, after your appointment, your dinner with the Prime Minister and then being in the motorcade with the Prime Minister, decides there are issues with the current residence and that it is time to look for a new residence—a $9-million residence, apparently. Isn't that convenient?

Can you elaborate for the committee again, please, what your implication was in discussing the new residence with the department and with the Prime Minister? When did you first bring it up with the Prime Minister?

The chronological timeline would definitely indicate that you had conversations with the Prime Minister about the residence. I mean, isn't it funny that you would be appointed, you would have dinner with the Prime Minister, you would be in a motorcade with the Prime Minister, and lo and behold, Global Affairs Canada decides that it's time for a new residence after that visit? Isn't that funny?

Just tell the committee now when you had the conversations with the Prime Minister about the new residence because that's what happened. Isn't that right, Mr. Clark?

[Thomas Clark]

No, Mr. Chair, it's completely wrong. I never spoke with the Prime Minister about the old residence, the new residence or any residence. The Prime Minister was not over at the residence for dinner. It wasn't just him and me. There were about 80 people there, including the mayor of New York City and the head of BlackRock investments, as well as a number of other people.

However, the core of your question is when I, or did I ever, speak to anybody about this? The answer is unequivocally no.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Mr. Clark, it's very hard for me to believe this. It's very hard for this committee to do this. Let's stop the lying.

I'm going to go to another timeline that is just not very supportive of your testimony that you have not had these conversations with the Prime Minister.

There is an email, internal to Global Affairs Canada, stating your involvement, outlining your involvement. That was sent on June 17 of this year. All of a sudden, in the media—which I know is your friend—a story breaks on July 11 of the $9-million condo purchase. Then this email, this internal email, is sent on July 25, which shows that you personally green-lighted this project. Lo and behold, this July 25...or correcting it. Pardon me. It was correcting it on July 25, further to the July 11 email that highlighted your green-lighting. This July 25 email, lo and behold, is one day after the committee passed the motion demanding your appearance.

Again, this is another timeline that is very damning to your evidence, to your testimony here today, Mr. Clark. Why don't we just stop the lying?

When did you have a conversation with the Prime Minister about the necessity for a new residence? Just tell the committee, please.

[Thomas Clark]

Mr. Chair, when we get to the point of accusing people of lying, I think we are in very dangerous territory.

I will state once again for the member that I had nothing to do with the decision to sell the old residence or to buy the new residence. I did not speak to the Prime Minister about either of those transactions—ever.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

We have the documents, Mr. Clark. We have the documents that indicate that you personally green-lighted this project. Lo and behold, so conveniently, after your time with the Prime Minister back in 2023, shortly after he appointed you, we know that you had conversations with the Prime Minister about purchasing this $9-million residence on the backs of Canadians. Now we have the email trail that proves that as well.

You have tried to cover it. Global Affairs Canada has tried to cover it. The email paper trail does not lie. I'm not buying this. This committee isn't buying this, Mr. Clark, and Canadians aren't buying it.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Let me interrupt for a second.

That is our time. We'll do your point of order. Then we'll suspend quickly so we can get Mr. Hardie checked voice-wise.

Go ahead, Mr. Jowhari.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I understand that Mrs. Kusie wants to use the term “we”, and the committee—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Is he citing a standing order in this point of order, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Please let him finish the point of order.

Go ahead, Mr. Jowhari.